The Remington Model 700 ADL, Pt 2

[SharpShooter88]

Okay, I know a few of you were involved in the making and demise of my last thread that ended QUICKLY once I realized how much money would be wrapped up into this project. Seeing as I am getting deployed soon, and I am finally going to have the money to spend on parts for my rifle, I am going to start putting a list of things together so that while I am overseas I can start ordering parts and I will have a fun project to eat up some time while I take a 2 month break after my deployment.

Here is what I have, Currently.

Stock Model 700 ADL synthetic chambered in .30-06

For all intentive purposes, I am basically just going to use the action and the trigger for now.

Things I plan to do

Kreiger Barrel, not sure on contour, or twist yet, but I am staying with the .30-06 caliber

Either HS precision, or McMillan Stock, haven't completely decided yet. Would like something with a high cheek weld and possibly adjustable LOP.

Going to have a local smith true the action and square up the bolt lugs, as well as install a badger ord. bolt knob and may send the bolt off to have it fluted.

BDL Bottom medal, possibly going with a detachable magazine set up. Not 100% sure yet

1 piece scope base with badger rings

Looking into a Luepold MK4 or VXIII, as well as nightforce, and S&B. Still not sure what ranges I will be shooting at but as of right now it is looking like as far as 1K, but I am going to start MUCH shorter than that seeing as I am sure I need to adjust to the rifle and get a range chart made up and develop a load and all first. I am thinking in the 4.5-6.5 minimum magnification range to around 16-20 max magnification. Should be about right.

I also plan on handloading my own "precision" rounds. I know there is a lot of work that goes in to making precision ammo, but I have been researching and learning a good bit and it sounds like a darn fun hobby.

Oh yea, one other thing. I plan on getting it Durakoted or Cerakoted after it is finished. Probably some sort of woodland camo pattern.

I may have a muzzle brake installed (surefire) for possible later down the road silencer set ups.

If any of you are wondering, YES this used to be a hunting rifle. I don't use it for hunting anymore. As matter of fact, it just sits around all year unless I take it out for some target shooting. My .308 venture which is smaller and lighter has filled that role very well, and I am feeling a need to find a niche for this rifle. I know the factory loads for the .30-06 don't have the highest BC so that is an issue I will need to address with my hand loads. Like I said, I plan on shooting it at a range varrying from 200-500 yards. The farthest I will get to shoot it will be at the local 1K range or upstate in the old coal region where my uncle owns half of a mountain that is nothing but shale and woods. Get about 2K yards up there but I won't ever touch that with this rifle.

Anyway, I know I had some issues with some of the more experience guys on here last time, for thinking I was a fool for using what I had lying around and my caliber choice and all that. I want to start off on a fresh slate here. It is what it is, I want to shoot this round, and I want to use this rifles action to do so. I may pay for "shortcutting" by using what I already have, or I may end up with a good shooting rifle. The stock action should be more than sufficient for the ranges I plan to shoot.

Now here it comes. Input PLEASE. And don't start flaming me or calling me a moron right away either, if you have something to say, back it up with facts. Say, "you are an idiot for using a stock action" and you better back it up with facts. That is all I am asking.

As for opinions on whether or not I can shoot that far. I am not saying I am the worlds greatest shot. I am not ever saying I am better than YOU. I am saying is I want to test myself and my rifle that I am about to build. That is all.

[arrrrgh15]

sounds like you have a plan and pretty good idea of what you want, so enjoy.

Few things about some of your listed options:
Your stock price will vary considerably between the HS v McMillan.
Your scope price will also vary pretty wildly between the Leupold v. S&B.

You might want to look at prices and try and determine what your budget is on these. You can use any of these and build a decent rifle capable of your intended purpose, but your $ amount could swing by $xxxx.xx.

I think the new Leupold FFP Mk4 with the M5 mil adjustments is running in the $1600 range. I have one and it works really well and cost quite a bit less than my Premier Reticle scope.

[Tim Ault]

I'm not going to knock anything your gonna do its your rifle and your money . Nothing wrong with your action or your caliber choice if your gonna handload for it at the ranges you stated you'll be shooting ,Just get a good barrel and have someone cut a good chamber ,Bed it properly in a good stock and it should be able to out shoot the shooter. The old 30-06 was a match ctg. or many many yrs. No reason it cant be made to shoot great groups using good handloading techniques . Will it be able to hang with the BR rifles Heck no! but sub moa 5 rd groups shouldnt be a problem if everything is done properly.

[bigedp51]

Guess which rifle is easiest to customize and do the work yourself



Guess which rifle is the easiest to change barrels and adjust headspace.



And guess which rifle always has 100% lug contact on "BOTH" locking lugs.



Guess which rifle I had to lap the lugs on because one was barely touching.

Score
Stevens rifles 2
Remington rifle 1


http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/

[SharpShooter88]

Well I didn't piss too many people off, so that is a good thing.

I decided thus far to go with the McMillan A5 stock, it is more than adjustable enough and pretty resonably priced compared to something like the AICS for almost $1K...

Badger rings, Single Piece base, and Luepold Mk4 LRT M1 Mil Dot

Thinking about going with a jewel trigger, they are priced higher than some of the other companies, but a lot of people use them, so they have to be doing something right.

Going to go the detachable mag route for the bottom metal. After some debate it will allow me to hold more rounds, so I can do some of the fun tactical shoots I have been looking into without reloading as much.

Still planning on a kreiger barrel if I can get one before I get home from overseas.

Still working on some of the other details. I plan on having a nice big pile of boxes at my house whenever I get home. I was thinking about sending it out while I am overseas, but my wife would have to do that, and I don't know if she will get confused and send the wrong parts to the wrong places and such.

All good things take time. This planning stage started out about a year ago, and is still going on. I plan on ordering some of the cheaper components while I am still state side, rings, base, etc...I also plan on sending out the bolt to get it fluted and the knob put on it before I leave as well.

Still a lot of prep work to be done that isn't accounted for yet. Trueing the action, which will include the bolt and lapping the lugs and all that, then getting the oversized recoil lug, getting the barrel blank threaded and chambered properly, and getting it all bedded into the stock. It is going to add up. I am guessing I will have around $3K into the rifle. If I was feeling froggy, I would just buy one of the $1K actions and just sell the other rifle complete, but that would defeat the reason of me keeping the action off of my very first rifle.

Yes, ladies and gents, the only reason I am using this action, and not just starting from scratch is because this was my very first rifle, purchased for me by my father. Seems like a waste of a rifle, but as it sits right now, I never shoot the thing. If it was fun and tacticool, I would probably shoot it every chance I got!


This is the first I though about this, so don't bag on me too bad, but...

Can you chamer a LA 700 action for .338 LapMag? Will I need to have a magnum bolt face or is the .338 a .308 bolt face? I haven't researched this yet, something I have just been pondering. I hear some people think the .338 is the best long range round ever developed. It does cost considerably more than .30-06 though.

[SharpShooter88]

I'm not going to knock anything your gonna do its your rifle and your money . Nothing wrong with your action or your caliber choice if your gonna handload for it at the ranges you stated you'll be shooting ,Just get a good barrel and have someone cut a good chamber ,Bed it properly in a good stock and it should be able to out shoot the shooter. The old 30-06 was a match ctg. or many many yrs. No reason it cant be made to shoot great groups using good handloading techniques . Will it be able to hang with the BR rifles Heck no! but sub moa 5 rd groups shouldnt be a problem if everything is done properly.

I am not making this rifle so that it will hang with BR, I am making it a sub moa tactical long range tool.

If it can hit an 8" plate at 500 yards consistantly, I will be happy with it.

If it can hit(or maybe more like I) a silhouette at 1K yards consistently,I will be ecstatic.

I think you can see where I am going for my philosophy of use with this rifle. And NO I am not planning on becomming a hit man or taking anybody out with it. I am preparing for the zombie apocalypse, and a lot of FUN at the range!

[SharpShooter88]

Also reconsidering using my factory action. I may be looking into a custom action if I can find the right one for the right price.

This is something I am willing to take recommendations on, seeing as I know very little about anything other than the fact that remingtons QC is slightly lacking and the truing process is going to be a lot more work with one of their factory actions, or let me rephrase, COULD be.

[Tomcat088]

I combined two of your posts to answer some of what you mentioned. Hope this isn't a problem or offensive. I just condensed things for space and clarity.

Well I didn't piss too many people off, so that is a good thing.

Badger rings, Single Piece base, and Luepold Mk4 LRT M1 Mil Dot

Thinking about going with a jewel trigger, they are priced higher than some of the other companies, but a lot of people use them, so they have to be doing something right.


Still planning on a kreiger barrel if I can get one before I get home from overseas.


Can you chamer a LA 700 action for .338 LapMag? Will I need to have a magnum bolt face or is the .338 a .308 bolt face? I haven't researched this yet, something I have just been pondering. I hear some people think the .338 is the best long range round ever developed. It does cost considerably more than .30-06 though.

This is something I am willing to take recommendations on, seeing as I know very little about anything other than the fact that remingtons QC is slightly lacking and the truing process is going to be a lot more work with one of their factory actions, or let me rephrase, COULD be.

I'm glad to hear that you're still considering building up a rifle, since it sounds like it's what you want to do. I'm also glad to hear that you're going at it in a bit more realistic manner, or at least have an idea of what you're getting into.

First issue that I'd pick a bone about is your scope choice. I don't have a problem with Leupold or the Mark 4's, they're fine scopes, especially for most people's uses. I still wouldn't go with just a Gen I mil-dot. I think you'd be better served with the TMR reticle. The Gen I Mil-dot just doesn't subtend to as fine of measurements, and there are just so many better options available today. If I was going with a Leupold, I'd take the TMR over their mil-dot. I also don't see the point of going with the M1 turrets. If you go with MOA turrets with a mil based reticle, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You have to do conversions, so you're losing time and a bit of accuracy in the rounding and conversions. If you're going to go with a mil based reticle (TMR or mil-dot), then I would go with the M5 turrets, now that they exist. It's just a no brainer, and I think something that you might really regret later. Some people think it's difficult to get away from moa to mil's, but it's worth the jump. If you're not familiar with the differences, please let us know so we can elaborate.

Jewell triggers are nice, and I like them a lot. I'm still not sure that's what I'd use in a tactical rifle. Some people use them in tactical rifles, but lots of people don't think it's the best idea. Some very prominent long range instructors say that Jewell triggers are what they see the most problems from during classes. They see TONS of expensive precision rifles, in all kinds of conditions, if someone knows, the quality instructors do. Most people prefer other aftermarket triggers that don't have quite as tight of tolerances, or a properly adjusted Remington trigger (old style typically). Jewell triggers are typically spoken about when it comes to the bench rifle triggers that are dialed down in the ounces, although they do make triggers that are more in the "conventional" pull weights.

Krieger barrels are nice, the one on my custom rifle shoots like a dream. It also doesn't string rounds even when it's so hot you can't touch it. Just remember that the smith that chambers it and does all the work is every bit as important as the barrel maker. Krieger usually has a pretty decent lead time, and depending on what season you buy them. Different competitions have their seasons, so keep that in mind. Just ask them the approximate lead time when you talk to them on the phone, and they're usually about spot on. They always welcome people to call, ask questions, even if you're not quite ready to buy one. So call and ask questions, recommendations, lead times, etc. If you find their lead time to be too long, you may also call Bartlein. They also make top quality cut rifled barrels, and have even newer machines than Krieger, and also cryogenically stress relieve their barrels the way Krieger does. The backstory is basically some Krieger employees had a disagreement with the company, and went and started their own company. They got newer machinery and are now in the game. People who are Krieger fans, are typically Bartlein barrels, and will go with whoever has the shorter lead time.

Your answer about rechambering the action to a .338 Lapua is a bit complicated. The magnum actions are actually a bit longer than just the normal "long actions", so it's not just a difference in the bolt face, although that's something you'd have to do. So technically I'm not sure that you can do it with the normal long action because of the length, BUT if you did, here's some other things that would come into play. The .30-06 uses the .473" bolt face, so that would be a problem, and the bolt face would have to be opened up. The magnum bolt faces are still only a .532" bolt face. This is where things get interesting; even the .532" bolt face isn't big enough to accomodate the .338 Lapua. The .338 Lapua uses something like a .582" bolt face (if I remember correctly, could be .588") so even a magnum bolt face would have to be opened up. The problem with this is that when you do it, it opens the bolt face up so much, you make the bolt nose thin. Some people fight and debate about this, but some say it's a safety concern, others say it is not. Either way, you take off so much metal that you then have to have a Sako extractor or an M16 extractor put in the bolt. This in turn complicates the chambering just a bit because there has to be a cut out to accomodate the extractor. You'd also have to open up the feed rails on the action. If you're going to use some other DBM system like Badger bottom metal (or others), then some other things would have to be done, but still things would have to be done to the rails on the action. Another problem and safety concern is related to the bolt body of the Remington 700. Some people say that the bolt body is too narrow/thin, and that it was never intended to be used on a cartridge as large at the .338 Lapua. I've never heard of anybody blowing one up, but it is definitely possible. For other cartridges, the action is designed to survive catastrophic failure, and is "over engineered" in case something like that happens. When you start going to the .338 Lapua, you're starting to cut into some of that "over engineering", and using it for the standard amounts. So just realize that you're kind of cutting into your "safety net". Some people say that the Ultra mags create more pressure and strain on the action than the .338 Lapua, but I'm not sure how true or false that claim is. The fact remains that it is possible to sheer off bolt lugs from a Remington 700 that has been modified to accept the .338 Lapua. I just want you to know that up front, out there, so you can make up your own mind about how safe it is or isn't. If you want to be on the safe side, there are companies that make clones of the Remington 700, with larger bolt bodies, and that are engineered to handle the .338 Lapua, and even larger cartridges like the .408 Cheytac, .375 Cheytac, etc. With all this information, it may just make you not want to use your action, or go with some other chambering besides .30-06.

I wanted to ask a few questions though, particularly about the .338 Lapua. Why do you think you need or want a .338 Lapua? Do you really know much about it besides that some people say "it's the best long range cartridge ever developed?" I mean it almost sounds like you just want a cool toy, something that the big boys play with. The .338 Lapua goes WAY beyond the kind of ranges that you're talking about. The .338 Lapua isn't just a LR cartridge, it's an ELR cartridge. People that say it might be one of the best long range cartridges ever developed are a bit out of the loop. Those people obviously haven't heard about or at least seriously looked into cartridges like the .408 Cheytac, .416 Barrett, .375 Cheytac, or some of the other crazy ELR cartridges in existence. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but it sounds like you're very new to even trying to shoot midrange (500 yards), seriously and consistently. If you aren't already shooting 1,000 yards often and consistently, the .338 Lapua is WWWWWAAAAAYYYYYY too much gun for you. It is not something that you will just "grow into", or that will lend itself to a beginner for several reasons that I'll get into shortly. Have you seriously looked into the .338 Lapua and the components, etc? Most people complain about having to pay over $2 per round that they shoot. With the .338 Lapua get ready to be spending in the neighborhood of $4-5 PER ROUND. Every time you rack that bolt, just imagine the sound of a cash register and $5 bills because that's what you're doing. Most people can't afford to shoot the caliber often, much less as many rounds as you need to learn the ropes. The recoil on the .338 Lapua is quite brisk, as is the pressure wave. Those things will not help you get the fundamentals down, you'll be flinching, or fatigued, and just spending money building habits that will be counter intuitive to you learning to shoot long range properly. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm trying to tell you like it is and be honest with you. The .338 Lapua is just too much gun for you, the money will be better spent in ammo for some other "conventional" learning cartridge. After you've got thousands or tens of thousands of quality LR practice rounds down range, and can hit consistent at 1,000 yards; THEN you might want to consider moving up to something like the .338 Lapua IF you want to really push the limits and have a place to REGULARLY shoot past 1200-1500 yards. I mean hell, even a .300 winmag will make the trip to a mile (1,760 yards), as will several other similar cartridges loaded properly. I really think you need to move on past these ideas, and get back to something that is a bit more feasable and that will help you in your long run goal of being a proficient long range shooter.

On to a lighter note, and moving on to the action remarks. I do want to say that there's nothing wrong with you wanting to build a rifle on your Remington 700 action. I think it's pretty amazing to want to build one on your first rifle that was given to you from your father, and is a rifle you don't shoot much. I just think it's important to understand what all you want done to the action, which will depend on what you want to do with it (caliber, budget, etc). If you really want to go all the way, and have the action fully blue printed (diffent bolt handles, welded, bolt sleeved, firing pin welded/centered, etc), then it will probably be better to go the custom action route. It's not that you'll end up with an inferior thing, but it's just a lot of work and money to pour into something, when you can get a completely new something that was made to PERFECT tolerances for the same price. I mean if the price difference is $350, you might as well just keep the rifle your father gave you, you might end up wanting to shoot it more later after you realize how capable it really is. In the hands of a good shooter, with some very minor tuning, that rifle will shoot to 1,000 yards AS IT IS, YOU are the limiting factor. $350-400 isn't going to be but just a drop in the bucket from what you'll have poured into a custom rifle, trust me on that. If you just want to true up the face, true up the lugs, throw a custom lug on it, and go with it, then it may not be cheaper. It just depends on what you want done. If you aren't familiar with some of what can be done, go in the gunsmithing section and look at the sticky I wrote about precision rifle modifications, it's a good start and you'll have more questions. If you want to explore custom actions, just let us know and we can start talking about them, and toss out some links where there's already been some discussion about them. There's nothing wrong with using a factory Remington 700 action, I've done it, and don't regret it one bit. Just think it all through, the big picture, and where you want this to go. Let us know how we can help, we're always happy to offer suggestions and answer any questions you might have. With all that goes into these builds, thinking out loud and asking what we think, works as well. Good luck to you sir.

[animalmother85]

To add my own little experience to compliment Tomcat088's;

I ordered my barrel (from Bartlien) before I got into Iraq. I got it 1 month after I got home (9 months or so). It went through two triggers (the fit on the Jackson CG wasn't what I liked so I went with a Huber). The stock (KMW Sentinel) took over two years and two tours to get. My project went from a humble Remington 700 action to a Badger Ordnance action. The caliber changed a handful of times through the planning of it from 308, to 338LM, to 300WM, to 260 Rem, to 6.5-284, and finally resting at 260AI. It's still not done, the bolt is in South Dakota getting some work done and I'm awaiting some new pillars for it so I can bed it. Once it's done, I'll still shoot my 223's more.

I don't recommend the 338LM either. It was $220 for 100 pieces of brass 3 years ago. Plus, it hate recoil and I couldn't shoot further then what that rifle can do on a range that is in a state of vacuum.

Look into Manners for stocks as well. I believe their lead time may be a bit shorter and great CS.

Expect your project to change like the wind as you go. It's a can of worms that will cost you.

[Neko456]

Sounds like a great start of a good plan. I think will enjoy building and shooting long range rifle with your military training you will be able to get the most out of it. Maybe be able to do some 500-600 yard shooting with it. My similar setup I can only do 300-350 yard shots no military training. Good luck keep us posted.