Which AR ... LMT Daniel Defense Noveske???

[Valorius]

I've seen Colt military M-16s have problems too (to some people, any model of AR is a "mattel piece of crap"). And i've seen box stock Bushies that ran great (I put hundreds of rounds through mine after i bought it, but before i tore it up and rebuilt it to my own specs, it never gave me any grief).

Anything mechanical can break, and no one would suggest a box stock Bushie competes with a Noveske, however, one can buy a good condition used Bushie for $600 (or less), spend anywhere from a couple hundred to about 500 bucks making it "right" (depending on their idea of "right"), and have a properly sorted gun with the exact features they want for about a grand, and probably less. Which is a lot more economical than buying a stripped $1600 Noveske.

That's what i did. (My "Bushmaster" is really just a BM upper and lower, everything else in it is aftermarket and exactly what i wanted)Anyone can do it. But people don't really buy top end things for economy, usually it's either for the name, or because they've convinced themselves that the product is somehow better, when often, it's the same product they're selling down the street for half the price. I would never tell anyone not to buy top end if they want, i have an "overpriced" Porsche myself, i was just agreeing with the other poster that said you can get a comparable weapon that will serve you fine for a hell of a lot less.

As for the S&W M&P15, they seem to work just fine right out of the box.

Of the ones listed in this thread, i'd personally buy the one with the best resale value. Any of the guns listed is good to go as far as functionality.

[orionz06]

I've seen Colt military M-16s have problems too (to some people, any model of AR is a "mattel piece of crap"). And i've seen box stock Bushies that ran great (I put hundreds of rounds through mine after i bought it, but before i tore it up and rebuilt it to my own specs, it never gave me any grief).

Anything mechanical can break, and no one would suggest a box stock Bushie competes with a Noveske, however, one can buy a good condition used Bushie for $600 (or less), spend anywhere from a couple hundred to about 500 bucks making it "right" (depending on their idea of "right"), and have a properly sorted gun with the exact features they want for about a grand, and probably less. Which is a lot more economical than buying a stripped $1600 Noveske.

That's what i did. Anyone can do it. But people don't really buy top end things for economy, usually it's either for the name, or because they've convinced themselves that the product is somehow better, when often, it's the same product they're selling down the street for half the price.

As for the S&W M&P15, they seem to work just fine right out of the box.

Correct, replace the bolt, carrier (which negates the poor factory staking and likely incorrect torque), stake the castle nut, replace the buffer, and check the torque on the barrel nut and you could be well on your way.

[kindred_spirits]

You can't really go wrong with LMT, Daniel Defense, or Noveske. Pick the one that you find the best price on.

Also consider BCM (I own one and love it) and the LaRue OBR 5.56.

I would opt for a midlength gas system over a carbine. Less felt recoil, easier on the internals, and better reliability.

[SCBaldr]

If you are having trouble justifying a Noveske/LMT/DD/KA. Then I would take a serious look at CMMG. You can load up one of their rifles with all kinds of good shit and still wind up far under the $1400 mark. Gas keys are properly staked, castle nuts are properly torqued, barrels are top quality and CMMG has some of the best CS going if you do have an issue.

Though, I have a negative view of all ARs, no matter how well made. So take that with a grain of salt.

[Eckstream1]

No it is not.

Please educate me on why the S&W M&P is not Mil-Spec...
Considering M&P stands for Military & Police

To answer a couple of your questions...
Some specs on the rifle....
S&W M&P15X rifle
.223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO
16" 4140 steel M4 barrel
1:9" twist with 6 grooves & lands
Chrome-lined barrel bore, gas key, and bolt carrier
30 round magazine
Gas operated, multi-lug rotary locking bolt
7075 T6 aluminum upper and lower receivers
Hard coat black anodized receivers and barrel
A3 flat top upper receiver with 4-rail tactical handguard and Troy flip-up rear sight
Standard A2 front sight base
Black M4 6-position buttstock
Accepts all AR-15 and M16 magazines
32" to 35" overall length
6.5 lbs unloaded

Edit:Some good info here...
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Mil...&mode=threaded


The only thing I can find that is not Mil-Spec is the twist rate of 1/7....
In my case I would prefer the 1/9 twist rate...

[xx AG xx]

I am surprised that no one has put up these links yet..


Link 1 -- Explanation of Desirable Features in Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...=5&output=html

Link 2 -- comparison chart for commercial M4's
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...=2&output=html


AG

[orionz06]

Please educate me on why the S&W M&P is not Mil-Spec...
Considering M&P stands for Military & Police

S&W can call it whatever the hell they want, it is still not milspec. That does not mean it is bad, but it is not milspec. The links below explain more.

I am surprised that no one has put up these links yet..


Link 1 -- Explanation of Desirable Features in Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...=5&output=html

Link 2 -- comparison chart for commercial M4's
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...=2&output=html


AG

Those and a few other links have not been posted here by me simply because people don't read them. They will say "my ____ is perfect, I don't need to read that" and continue to spread garbage.

[Eckstream1]

S&W can call it whatever the hell they want, it is still not milspec. That does not mean it is bad, but it is not milspec. The links below explain more.
Those and a few other links have not been posted here by me simply because people don't read them. They will say "my ____ is perfect, I don't need to read that" and continue to spread garbage.

I'll read whatever I can... I'm just trying to educate myself so I can better understand the differences.

Some good info so far...

Thanks guys...

[Gun]

wally36,

here is some more reading;

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...y-an-AR-15-huh

[Eckstream1]

wally36,

here is some more reading;

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...y-an-AR-15-huh

Really good info there too!
Interesting to see how all the manufacturers stack up!

Thanks!