Question on California carry

**Franky4Fingers** · July 17th, 2011, 05:46 PM

I know this is the PAFOA, but from past news with the whole starbucks things with OC being legal in CA .... I just thought of something, a question really. You can carry in CA without a permit as long as its not loaded I guess? Thats my question is, what are the specifics on this? Is it fully unloaded, no magazine? I was wondering because if its a no magazine thing, could one still be chambered?

Just idle curiosity.

**mrjam2jab** · July 17th, 2011, 05:54 PM

From CA Firearms Laws page 35

5.LOADED FIREARMS
Loaded Firearms in a Public Place
It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public
place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.
(Penal Code § 12031(a)(1).)
A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any
manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip
thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is
capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. (Penal
Code § 12031(g).)

I know that is dated 2005...but I don't see anything more recent....that has changed since then

**knight0334** · July 17th, 2011, 06:01 PM

No ammo in the gun period. Also, the magazine is considered an integral part of the gun whether it is inserted or in a mag carrier. ...so the thing to do is put an empty mag in the gun thus "completing" the gun. A handgun being carried without a magazine, but with you carrying a loaded one on your belt, could be construed to be having a loaded gun. With an empty mag in the gun the gun is complete.

Magazines must be carried openly.

**Franky4Fingers** · July 17th, 2011, 11:46 PM

ah...thanks gentlemen (who came in?)

**mrjam2jab** · July 18th, 2011, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by knight0334

No ammo in the gun period. Also, the magazine is considered an integral part of the gun whether it is inserted or in a mag carrier. ...so the thing to do is put an empty mag in the gun thus "completing" the gun. A handgun being carried without a magazine, but with you carrying a loaded one on your belt, could be construed to be having a loaded gun. With an empty mag in the gun the gun is complete.

Magazines must be carried openly.

I didn't see that part...cite?

**C27433** · July 18th, 2011, 11:09 AM

A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any
manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip
thereof attached to the firearm.

IANAL but that seems pretty clear to me that one can possess a loaded magazine in CA without necessarily needing an empty mag in the gun.

ETA: As long as that magazine is unattached and carried pursuant to any other applicable CA law. But I don't believe the snippet provided above prohibits the act of carrying a loaded mag separate from the gun, with no empty mag in the gun as a "place holder".

**Keystone.45** · July 19th, 2011, 06:14 PM

Looks like that may be changing:

http://sierramadre.patch.com/article...nate-committee

"A bill that would make it illegal to openly carry an unloaded handgun in California is moving its way through the State Senate."