Empty hand skills in SE PA

[Turkeyhoagie]

Hey all. I've been googling, and I'm having a hard time turning up a result.. so I'm gonna ask the experts (and you guys )


WHEREAS, we all know that the gun is not the be-all, end-all in the world of self-defense and/or physical confrontation, I have decided to look into martial arts. My first choice would be Krav Maga, followed by either Aikido or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, then as a last resort one of the ten million nameless 'fitness karate' studios that focus on burning fat and getting belts.

I currently live in Havertown, that's Delaware County, but would consider traveling if I can find what I'm looking for somewhere a little farther out.

Can anybody from around Philly step up and help me out?

[dgg9]

My first choice would be Krav Maga, followed by either Aikido or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, then as a last resort one of the ten million nameless 'fitness karate' studios that focus on burning fat and getting belts.

Infinite selection of stuff in downtown Philly.

Krav Maga on 9th St in the Italian market area. A very good combatives instructor, with whom I've trained, also teaches a few blocks from there.

Indonesian arts are very effective, and there's plenty of that in Philly. Aikido and BJJ are here as well.

There wasn't that much when I lived in Delco, 10 - 20 years ago.

While knowledge of grappling is important, I'd hesitate to train first and only in one of those arts. Krav Maga is good because you learn street-effective strikes and techniques quickly. My advice is start with that, then add something else later.

[billamj]

Here is a nice list of schools in the vicinity of Havertown. What I would do is to try doing web searches based on that page and see if any of them have a truly viable instructor in the art that you are interested in.

[P89]

Aikido IS effective, some call it a "soft" martial art, entirely defensive...which should be mastered before offensive moves.
Aikido will teach you balance and physics...both basis for all martial arts.

[dgg9]

Aikido IS effective, some call it a "soft" martial art, entirely defensive...which should be mastered before offensive moves.
Aikido will teach you balance and physics...both basis for all martial arts.

It will teach you balance and all that; doesn't mean it's effective for most students, certainly not soon. The notion that an average student can defend himself on the stree with no strikes seems ....optimistic. Add a second adversary, and that all goes out the window.

The way I view a typical US martial arts student is this: he will likely not spend the 15 years minimum, 4x a week necessary to be street effective with aikido. If you want to take a random student and give him something usable very soon, we're talking a combatives style.

Aikido is the sort of thing you take AFTER you've had other styles and have something to bring to the table.

[P89]

It will teach you balance and all that; doesn't mean it's effective for most students, certainly not soon. The notion that an average student can defend himself on the stree with no strikes seems ....optimistic. Add a second adversary, and that all goes out the window.

The way I view a typical US martial arts student is this: he will likely not spend the 15 years minimum, 4x a week necessary to be street effective with aikido. If you want to take a random student and give him something usable very soon, we're talking a combatives style.

Aikido is the sort of thing you take AFTER you've had other styles and have something to bring to the table.

All in who teaches you & your disipline.
It is true hand to hand (grappling) combat.
The thing to keep in mind is that no matter how much you know there are ones who know more, I certainly don't know it all & have been doing it for awhile.

[dgg9]

All in who teaches you & your disipline.

Only up to a point. What the art does and does not do makes it a high degree of difficulty style. It's inherently hardER to apply to real fights than most other arts. To feel for your opponent's energy and weight, to flow and meld into that, and redirect it -- all this while knotted with fear and adrenaline -- is not something you're going to get in a year, if at all.

Note also that aikido's effectiveness plummets drastically when the opponent doesn't give you big, committed haymakers. Aikido is the natural yin to karate's yang, but works far less well against anyone decently trained, who won't give you much of his own weight and evergy to work with. And if you have a purely defensive style, you're limited to reacting. Pure reaction places a huge burden on the defender, and is very dependent on what the attacker chooses to do.

Compare all this complexity and reaction with a combatives art, that just drives your elbow directly into the BG's face. There's less to think about, less to react to. Hence, combatives styles are easier to bootstrap up to a useful level in new students.

[P89]

Only up to a point. What the art does and does not do makes it a high degree of difficulty style. It's inherently hardER to apply to real fights than most other arts. To feel for your opponent's energy and weight, to flow and meld into that, and redirect it -- all this while knotted with fear and adrenaline -- is not something you're going to get in a year, if at all.

Note also that aikido's effectiveness plummets drastically when the opponent doesn't give you big, committed haymakers. Aikido is the natural yin to karate's yang, but works far less well against anyone decently trained, who won't give you much of his own weight and evergy to work with. And if you have a purely defensive style, you're limited to reacting. Pure reaction places a huge burden on the defender, and is very dependent on what the attacker chooses to do.

Compare all this complexity and reaction with a combatives art, that just drives your elbow directly into the BG's face. There's less to think about, less to react to. Hence, combatives styles are easier to bootstrap up to a useful level in new students.

Absolutely.
Do you only keep one wrench in your tool box?

[dgg9]

Absolutely.
Do you only keep one wrench in your tool box?

Not at all. And aikido is one difficult wrench to use for all events. That's why I always advise relative beginners to take a combatives style FIRST, and then add some grappling into the mix (even better is a combatives style that has grappling). Even there -- within the range of grappling styles, aikido is limited in application and hard to learn. It's an art I always toyed with taking, but never could justify the time.

[MarcS]

Currently I'm taking Judo over in bryn mawr, but i have a strong combatives background in Fight Survival Training and some Krav Maga. I don't recommend starting with grappling as, while it is an imperative skill to round out ones martial arts training with, It is never the first skill you want to revert to with the possibility of weapons and multiple opponents. This is especially true for brazillian ju jitsu which emphasizes the ground game (great in a cage with a single opponent and a ref, not so great in a street with broken glass and 3 dock workers with steel toed boots.)

The most important thing when selecting a place to learn martial arts is the quality and mindset of the instructor, not so much the art. You really just have to watch some classes and talk to the instructors.