Magpul Angled Foregrip

[Last Resort]

I know this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a clear concensus. Does anybody know if this particular item constitutes an "AOW" if applied to a pistol (AR or AK)? I know that vertical foregrips are absolutely prohibited without the appropriate stamp/paperwork, but what about this?

[forceinPA]

It does not.

[Asmodeus6]

It does not.

[DreadPirateMoyer]

I'm not as confident as the posters above.

This topic has come up a lot, and as an avid AR-pistol lover, I've done a ton of research on it. With that said, I'm not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt:

1. Most of the precedent for AFGs being legal on pistols comes from letters written by the ATF, not from any type of legal proceeding.
2. In regards to the AFG being legal on pistols, all of the letters that I've seen say just that: that it's legal. Technically, short-barreled rifles, silencers, and pistols with vertical foregrips are also legal, but there's a catch: you need to get the ATF's permission to own them by getting a $200 tax stamp. Until the ATF says that AFGs on pistols are both legal and do not require a tax stamp, I would not put one on my pistol.
3. Even if the ATF explicitly said you could put an AFG on your pistol without getting a tax stamp, no one knows if that letter would actually hold up in court. If your local police officer gave you a written letter saying it was legal to kill someone, would it hold up in court? Obviously not. Granted, that's an extreme example, but the principle remains the same: letters from enforcement officers do not necessarily constitute a strong defense in court. With that said, I doubt anyone would convict you if the ATF came after you after giving you permission via ATF letterhead, but it's not something I would want to test.

Overall, I'd stay the hell away from AFGs on AR-pistols until more clarification is garnered through a court case or through an explicit letter (addressed to you) from the ATF. Even in the case of the latter, I probably wouldn't do it, but hey, it's up to you.

[EDIT]Here is one of the most widely distributed letters from the ATF regarding AFGs on AR-pistols. As you can see, it says nothing about needing a tax stamp or not. Rather, it only says that adding an AFG to your pistol is "legal." Not something I'd be willing to stake thousands of dollars and possibly a few years of my life on.[/EDIT]

[Asmodeus6]

I'm not as confident as the posters above.

This topic has come up a lot, and as an avid AR-pistol lover, I've done a ton of research on it. With that said, I'm not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt:

1. Most of the precedent for AFGs being legal on pistols comes from letters written by the ATF, not from any type of legal proceeding.
2. In regards to the AFG being legal on pistols, all of the letters that I've seen say just that: that it's legal. Technically, short-barreled rifles, silencers, and pistols with vertical foregrips are also legal, but there's a catch: you need to get the ATF's permission to own them by getting a $200 tax stamp. Until the ATF says that AFGs on pistols are both legal and do not require a tax stamp, I would not put one on my pistol.
3. Even if the ATF explicitly said you could put an AFG on your pistol without getting a tax stamp, no one knows if that letter would actually hold up in court. If your local police officer gave you a written letter saying it was legal to kill someone, would it hold up in court? Obviously not. Granted, that's an extreme example, but the principle remains the same: letters from enforcement officers do not necessarily constitute a strong defense in court. With that said, I doubt anyone would convict you if the ATF came after you after giving you permission via ATF letterhead, but it's not something I would want to test.

Overall, I'd stay the hell away from AFGs on AR-pistols until more clarification is garnered through a court case or through an explicit letter (addressed to you) from the ATF. Even in the case of the latter, I probably wouldn't do it, but hey, it's up to you.

[EDIT]Here is one of the most widely distributed letters from the ATF regarding AFGs on AR-pistols. As you can see, it says nothing about needing a tax stamp or not. Rather, it only says that adding an AFG to your pistol is "legal." Not something I'd be willing to stake thousands of dollars and possibly a few years of my life on.[/EDIT]

So write 400 letters until they change their mind.

[forceinPA]

So write 400 letters until they change their mind.

This was discused on another board, and the answer from ATF was that it's not a Grip. I will try to locate the thread

[forceinPA]

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...NzdhMzUx&hl=en


Here it is, very last question

[Asmodeus6]

This was discused on another board, and the answer from ATF was that it's not a Grip. I will try to locate the thread

I know. I've read it. The point is, that now that there IS an answer. The paranoid legal eagle types need to stop. And leave it ALONE. Before the answer changes.

What they don't get is, what is legal for person A, is not illegal for person B. Therefore, I don't need to write them a letter just to get my own permission. In fact the chances of it ever being called into question is like being eaten by a shark while simultaneously being struck by lightning anyway...

But they have to keep asking, and asking... and asking... and the same type of people hound every NFA section and thread and "warn" everyone about the perils that will soon befall them. It's about personality type at this point. Shut up, step away from the pen, email, and forums. And don't put the AFG on your gun. Problem solved.

The answer is that it is legal. Stop mincing words, and trying to find vagueness. Just let it go. If the answer is not acceptable to you. Don't do it. Stop trying to convince us your interpretation holds the most water.

It's annoying. But the same guys haunt every one of these threads on many boards and do the same song and dance.

[DreadPirateMoyer]

I know. I've read it. The point is, that now that there IS an answer. The paranoid legal eagle types need to stop. And leave it ALONE. Before the answer changes.

What they don't get is, what is legal for person A, is not illegal for person B. Therefore, I don't need to write them a letter just to get my own permission. In fact the chances of it ever being called into question is like being eaten by a shark while simultaneously being struck by lightning anyway...

But they have to keep asking, and asking... and asking... and the same type of people hound every NFA section and thread and "warn" everyone about the perils that will soon befall them. It's about personality type at this point. Shut up, step away from the pen, email, and forums. And don't put the AFG on your gun. Problem solved.

The answer is that it is legal. Stop mincing words, and trying to find vagueness. Just let it go. If the answer is not acceptable to you. Don't do it. Stop trying to convince us your interpretation holds the most water.

It's annoying. But the same guys haunt every one of these threads on many boards and do the same song and dance.

Stop trying to convince us of our interpretation? Give me a break. You're doing the same thing, just like everyone else on any discussion board.

And you stated my point for me: it's legal. No where does it say you don't need a tax stamp, though. No where does it say that such an attachment is not an AOW. If you're confident that will hold up against an ATF-hired lawyer that can "mince words" far better than anyone on this forum, go for it. Suggesting that people use caution in these matters, however, isn't bad. Stop taking it so personally.

[Asmodeus6]

No where does it say you don't need a tax stamp, though. No where does it say that such an attachment is not an AOW.

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