"Municipal authority" operating county-owned land preemption? - E-MAIL sent!

[Eskimo]

I attended a workshop today for a new off-road facility (I'd rather not name it) that is going to be opening here in PA.

During the presentation, a short list of rules was put up, and among them, "No firearms or other weapons" are to be allowed.

This 6,000+ acre area is county owned land that will be operated by a "municipal authority".

As I read it, a MA is: "A municipal authority is an independent agency of the Commonwealth, a part of the Commonwealth’s sovereignty. Defined as “[a] body politic and corporate,” a municipal authority may be said to be an independent corporate agent of the Commonwealth, exercising governmental, as well as private corporate power, in assisting the Commonwealth in meeting the needs of its citizens.
Many authorities exercise certain powers and perform certain functions both within and outside the municipal limits of the incorporating municipality, within constitutional and statutory limitations. The Municipality Authorities Act dictates a broad grant of power so that municipal authorities may accomplish the purposes intended under the act in an efficient and economical manner and for the benefit and health of all the people of this Commonwealth." http://www.lgc.state.pa.us/deskbook0...uthorities.pdf

Sooo, it would seem that this may be a grey area on whether or not they can enforce no firearm rules in the area? Or is the fact that it's county land enough to trump anything else, and they are indeed preempting state law?

I want to keep this exchange between myself and the organizers of the park very civil if at all possible because a: one of them is family to a close friend, and b: off-roading is an activity I devote a lot of time and effort to, and don't want any bad press or hard feelings.

What says the collective "we"? Preemption violation or no?

[Smith40]

If this is where I think it is, there are/were a lot of folks that enjoyed hunting on this land (myself included). How's that gonna work out?

[MrBi11]

Currently the Library Authority in Lansing Michigan are using the term 'authority' to circumvent preemption (and now trying to get open carry defined as brandishing)

Here is the start:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Open-Carry-Inc.

[Eskimo]

If this is where I think it is, there are/were a lot of folks that enjoyed hunting on this land (myself included). How's that gonna work out?

Direct quote to the best of my memory: "Well, of COURSE we'll have to allow guns for hunting!" So you have nothing to worry about. Will be interesting to see if anyone gets hassled about carrying a rifle AND a handgun though.

They also felt the need to put "no illegal drugs" in there too. Well, DUH, it's already illegal, now isn't it? If they just change "No firearms" to "No illegal firearms" and I'll be happy.

[West Chester]

18 Pa.C.S. § 6120: Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.


I received this BS email from the Chester County Solicitor in regards to a no firearm sign in a county park

The County Commissioners have asked me to respond to your e-mail of March 31, 2011.

The section of the crimes code you cite ,18 PaCSA sec. 6120, does not apply to a County Park. That section only prohibits a local government from regulating firearms throughout its geographical boundaries. County Parks are real estate owned by the County. As such the County may impose regulations regarding use of a Park and what can and cannot be brought onto a County Park. The County Code specifically empowers the County Commissioners to manage and supervise its parks. The section of the crimes code you cite does not repeal this portion of the County Code. Therefore, the park regulations will remain in force.

[Curmudgeon]

18 Pa.C.S. § 6120: Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.


I received this BS email from the Chester County Solicitor in regards to a no firearm sign in a county park

I remember that, was that the end of it?

[Eskimo]

I guess if this was county operated, it would be a no-brainer, but this municipal authority thing has me wondering.

[bac0nfat]

The County Commissioners have asked me to respond to your e-mail of March 31, 2011.

The section of the crimes code you cite ,18 PaCSA sec. 6120, does not apply to a County Park. That section only prohibits a local government from regulating firearms throughout its geographical boundaries. County Parks are real estate owned by the County. As such the County may impose regulations regarding use of a Park and what can and cannot be brought onto a County Park. The County Code specifically empowers the County Commissioners to manage and supervise its parks. The section of the crimes code you cite does not repeal this portion of the County Code. Therefore, the park regulations will remain in force.

I definitely remember reading that before, is that just the standard answer they give everyone?

The County Code specifically empowers the County Commissioners to manage and supervise its parks

The answer to that is, The County Code does not specifically empower the County Commissioners to supersede state law

[Eskimo]

Sent this e-mail to the project coordinator:

Hello, I'm writing to bring to the attention of the AOAA planning commission a rule for the AOAA that appears to be in violation of state law. I became aware of this issue last night at the AOAA meeting at the Shamokin High School.

It is my understanding that the firearms prohibition portion of the park rules is in violation of Title 18, Chapter 61, subchapter A (otherwise known as The Uniform Firearms Act) specifically subsection 6120 which states: "General rule: No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.”

I know some people might want to know why someone would want to carry a firearm while on the grounds of the AOAA, and the answer may be as simple as they carry a firearm daily. But that question is not really the issue. The preemption statute I quoted is very important for Pennsylvanians that legally carry a firearm in that it removes the problem of a traveling citizen of running afoul of a myriad of local laws prohibiting where you can and cannot carry a firearm. In other words, licensed or otherwise legal carriers of firearms in Pennsylvania can carry everyplace not prohibited by state law.

I respectfully ask that the AOAA and the Northumberland County Planning Department please look into this matter, and if they wish to keep a "no firearms or weapons" rule in the AOAA rules, amend it to read "No illegal firearms or weapons". This will allow lawful carry and also remind those not authorized to carry that their actions are prohibited.

I thank you all for your time and we look forward to following up next month for any updates.

Regards,
Eskimo

[ByblosHex]

18 Pa.C.S. § 6120: Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.


I received this BS email from the Chester County Solicitor in regards to a no firearm sign in a county park

I want the email address of this person.