Black Power Rvolver - '1858 New Army'

[MMH]

I'm thinking about getting a black powder revolver, a 1858 New Army in .44 caliber. Don't really have a reason, just a wild hair up my...

Anyway, are these fun to play with, or, more hassle than it's worth? Are they accurate enough for general plinking? What does it cost to shoot them?

Cabella's is selling them for $200. By the time get some initial black poweder supplies, would probably be closer to $300.

[Whiskey Delta]

I, like you, always wanted to "dabble" in black powder pistols.

I did som research, which I would be glad to share with you:


First off, I think your selection is a good one. The remington 1858 was my choice after doing a lot of reading.

Get the steel frame. Brass is pretty, but weaker. Steel frame guns are rated to accept a .45 Long Colt conversion cylinder sold by brownells. This adds a whole dimension to the gun IMHO. My other choice if I had some extra money would be the wonderful Ruger black powder pistol...modern weapon that shoots black powder..nuff said..and you can get a conversion cylinder for that one as well.

Remington guns are not as pretty as the Colt guns, I am pretty confident saying. The lack of a top strap on the walker, 1860's, dragoon guns made them really streamlined and the archetype of their period, but they shot loose over time. Not a problem per se, unless you plan on going to war with one!

That being said, I have one of each !

I've not gotten a dragoon...yet! It's been on my short list since I was 10 and saw "True Grit" for the first time..

I also got a Thompson .45 percussion single shot.

It is probably the essence of precision target black powder, it has really nice adjustable sights and a staged trigger. Bonus: It looks like a pirate gun!


One thing I like is that it takes time to load it, and that is time for conversation with my sons, and the "one shot" aspect makes you take your time and really understand the value of one shot. Giving my sons an autoloader with a magazine is like an invitation to a brass recycling shop!

I can't give you a bunch of real world advice, but I think you are on the right path, as my opinion is based on the experience of others and it was generously shared with me.


Regarding cost: BP is not cheap, but you if you can buy in bulk you offset the hazmat charges. the ability to cast your own bullets is not something you should disregard. I tend to think that a solid BP revolver with a sufficient number of caps and a bullet mold is about as "Survival" as you can get! Think about it, you can make BP with grocery store *well, OK, DRUG STORE* chemicals, and wheel weights and scrap to make your own projectiles!

[MMH]

I, like you, always wanted to "dabble" in black powder pistols.

I did som research, which I would be glad to share with you:


First off, I think your selection is a good one. The remington 1858 was my choice after doing a lot of reading.

Get the steel frame. Brass is pretty, but weaker. Steel frame guns are rated to accept a .45 Long Colt conversion cylinder sold by brownells. This adds a whole dimension to the gun IMHO. My other choice if I had some extra money would be the wonderful Ruger black powder pistol...modern weapon that shoots black powder..nuff said..and you can get a conversion cylinder for that one as well.

Remington guns are not as pretty as the Colt guns, I am pretty confident saying. The lack of a top strap on the walker, 1860's, dragoon guns made them really streamlined and the archetype of their period, but they shot loose over time. Not a problem per se, unless you plan on going to war with one!

That being said, I have one of each !

I've not gotten a dragoon...yet! It's been on my short list since I was 10 and saw "True Grit" for the first time..

I also got a Thompson .45 percussion single shot.

It is probably the essence of precision target black powder, it has really nice adjustable sights and a staged trigger. Bonus: It looks like a pirate gun!


One thing I like is that it takes time to load it, and that is time for conversation with my sons, and the "one shot" aspect makes you take your time and really understand the value of one shot. Giving my sons an autoloader with a magazine is like an invitation to a brass recycling shop!

I can't give you a bunch of real world advice, but I think you are on the right path, as my opinion is based on the experience of others and it was generously shared with me.


Regarding cost: BP is not cheap, but you if you can buy in bulk you offset the hazmat charges. the ability to cast your own bullets is not something you should disregard. I tend to think that a solid BP revolver with a sufficient number of caps and a bullet mold is about as "Survival" as you can get! Think about it, you can make BP with grocery store *well, OK, DRUG STORE* chemicals, and wheel weights and scrap to make your own projectiles!

Thanks for the reply. I do like the way the strapless guns look, but am concerned about them being weaker, thus the 1858. Definitely considering steel, not brass. Are the .45 Long Colt cylinders available for all manufacturers? I assume that these are modern smokeless .45 LC cartridges. Can these blackpowder guns take a sustained diet of these? Also, does it make sense to get adjustable sights?

Any comments on the accuracy question? Also, how many shots is 1 lbs. of black power good for?

Also, how powerful are these black powder .44 cal revolvers? A .44 lead ball weighs 128 grains. I am totally guessing at the velocity. Is 700 fps about right? If so, this is 139 ft.-lb. of energy. Seems low but my velocity assumption may be way off. At 1000 fps the energy is up to 284 ft.-lb.

You are also correct about the 'survival' aspect...

[Steve_NEPhila]

Thanks for the reply. I do like the way the strapless guns look, but am concerned about them being weaker, thus the 1858. Definitely considering steel, not brass. Are the .45 Long Colt cylinders available for all manufacturers? I assume that these are modern smokeless .45 LC cartridges. Can these blackpowder guns take a sustained diet of these? Also, does it make sense to get adjustable sights?

Any comments on the accuracy question? Also, how many shots is 1 lbs. of black power good for?

You are also correct about the 'survival' aspect...

I am a revolver guy and I had no idea these kinds of revolvers existed. I will have to learn more about Black Power revolvers...

[knight0334]

Cap & ball revolvers are a blast. Sure, they take like forever to load - but they are definitely a hoot to shoot.

Just remember when you cock the gun after firing the first chamber, that you raise the muzzle 45+ degrees in the air so that if the spent cap falls off it doesn't fall into the action.

The steel frame Remington design 1858's can handle the 45Colt conversion better than the open top revolvers of the Colt design. Just be sure to use BLACK POWDER or a BP substitute in the .45Colt cases.

[Robert Kayland]

"So, Jeeves... this 'Black Power' thing... what do you make of it?"

[MMH]

Can I buy a BP revolver in WV, or is it treated as any other pistol and require that it be sent to a PA FFL?

[knight0334]

Can I buy a BP revolver in WV, or is it treated as any other pistol and require that it be sent to a PA FFL?

Yes.

Only a very few states regulate BP handguns to such limitations. WV isn't one of them, neither is PA. ...no FFL is needed. You can mail order, web order, phone order, etc, etc a BP handgun and have it delivered to your door. Federal government doesn't consider them "firearms" so long as they haven't been converted to fire fixed cartridges.

edit.. Let me guess.. You are thinking about going over to Cabelas near Wheeling?

[Rodolfo Fierro]

If you really want to put in a conversion, look at the 36 cal guns. They can be converted to shoot 38 specials. A much better choice for these guns. The manual that comes with cap & ball revolvers used to be one page. They give a little info on the gun. Here are some other things.
There are these felt wads treated with lube called "Wonder Wads" They come in both .36 & .44. Put one between the powder charge and the ball. You can shoot all day with them and the gun will not bind up.
There are co2 "Unloaders" that can blow a stuck ball out of the chamber if one gets stuck, or your powder gets wet. A worthwile investment.
When you seat the ball there should be a complete ring shaved off of the ball. Five thousanths (.005) of an inch is ideal. Bigger makes the ball hard to seat and smaller is hard to get with practicality. If you do not get a complete ring the chamber is not sealed!!! There is danger of a "Chain Fire" (detonation when an adjacent chamber is fired).
NEVER HAVE ANY BODY PART IN FRONT OF ANY CHAMBER THAT IS LOADED WHILE SHOOTING !
Those revolver rifles went out of style real fast.
Last but not least: When you are done for the day 1) Take care of the horses, etc. 2) Clean you gun 3) Eat dinner
PS If you are short on time skip dinner.

[MMH]

Let me guess.. You are thinking about going over to Cabelas near Wheeling?

You got me figured out, I'll have to rep you for that.