Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    2 miles from Bowers, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Good OC Conversation

    The wife and I went out to purchase health insurance today. As we were doing the paper work, I had to go into my wallet to retrieve my car insurance. After I opened my wallet, the insurance guy I was talking to asked me how much that permit costs. Since I have two, Utah and Pennsylvania, I asked which one. His response was, the one on your side We got to chat about the legality of OC, no permit needed to purchase a pistol, how you can not by a pistol as a gift for a non direct family member, reciprocity, calibers, and so on. I did pass on the PAFOA site address, so hopefully he checks it out. I usually do not post positive encounters; however, I have to admit this is the best encounter I have had!!

    Note to the gentleman I chatted with if your reading. Good luck to you and your gf! Be safe.
    Last edited by Fraggle09027; July 1st, 2011 at 12:24 AM.
    Fraggle09027 is not a lawyer. Any advice is just advice (my own 2 cents) and is not expressed or implied as legal advice.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Fombell, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    He should have said "Is that Nationwide on your side?" OH!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    I thought that carrying a gun was health insurance?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Britain Township, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle09027
    how you can not by a pistol as a gift for a non direct family member
    Where did you get that idea?

    ETA:

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by ATF
    An example of an illegal straw purchase
    is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
    Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
    Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
    money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
    out Form 4473, he violates the law by
    falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
    of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
    the law because he has unlawfully aided
    and abetted or caused the making of
    false statements on the form.
    Where a person purchases a firearm
    with the intent of making a gift of the
    firearm to another person, the person
    making the purchase is indeed the true
    purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
    in these instances. In the above example,
    if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
    with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
    as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
    lawfully have completed Form 4473.

    The use of gift certificates would also
    not fall within the category of straw purchases.
    The person redeeming the gift
    certificate would be the actual purchaser
    of the firearm and would be properly
    reflected as such in the dealer's records.
    Last edited by bac0nfat; July 1st, 2011 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    2 miles from Bowers, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by Python73 View Post
    He should have said "Is that Nationwide on your side?" OH!
    Wish I had thought of that!! Too funny

    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I thought that carrying a gun was health insurance?
    In a way yes

    Quote Originally Posted by bac0nfat View Post
    I learn something new there; therefore, I always reserve the right to be wrong Welp, when you stop learning your dead
    Fraggle09027 is not a lawyer. Any advice is just advice (my own 2 cents) and is not expressed or implied as legal advice.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    2 miles from Bowers, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by bac0nfat View Post
    One down side however, I know it would be illegal for LEO's to use the purchase db as a registry, but reality shows they do. If illegally stopped for OC'ing, or any other reason a LEO checks the firearm against the purchase register one may have an issue keeping the gun, and he/she would have to jump through hoops to get it back. IMHO, I would rather receive a gift certificate, and then go do the paper work on my own. Therefore, if an instance would arise I would have a little less of a headache. Myself, I would print a picture of the gun I wanted to gift, and attach a gift card to it for the full amount.
    Fraggle09027 is not a lawyer. Any advice is just advice (my own 2 cents) and is not expressed or implied as legal advice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    New Britain Township, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle09027 View Post
    One down side however, I know it would be illegal for LEO's to use the purchase db as a registry, but reality shows they do. If illegally stopped for OC'ing, or any other reason a LEO checks the firearm against the purchase register one may have an issue keeping the gun, and he/she would have to jump through hoops to get it back. IMHO, I would rather receive a gift certificate, and then go do the paper work on my own. Therefore, if an instance would arise I would have a little less of a headache. Myself, I would print a picture of the gun I wanted to gift, and attach a gift card to it for the full amount.
    I think you still will need to transfer it to that person through an FFL, once you give it to them. Hopefully someone else can chime in here, if not then we should send GL a PM.

    My guess is, you can buy the gun as a gift for someone without their knowledge, but once you give it to them, you will both need to go to an FFL and do the transfer.

    ETA: I sent GunLawyer001 a PM, hopefully he'll chime in.
    Last edited by bac0nfat; July 1st, 2011 at 02:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by bac0nfat View Post
    I think you still will need to transfer it to that person through an FFL, once you give it to them. Hopefully someone else can chime in here, if not then we should send GL a PM.

    My guess is, you can buy the gun as a gift for someone without their knowledge, but once you give it to them, you will both need to go to an FFL and do the transfer.
    This is true, but does not apply when transferring (gifting) to a spouse, parent, child, grandparent, or grandchild, who can legally own a firearm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    2 miles from Bowers, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by bac0nfat View Post
    I think you still will need to transfer it to that person through an FFL, once you give it to them. Hopefully someone else can chime in here, if not then we should send GL a PM.

    My guess is, you can buy the gun as a gift for someone without their knowledge, but once you give it to them, you will both need to go to an FFL and do the transfer.

    ETA: I sent GunLawyer001 a PM, hopefully he'll chime in.
    That was what I though was correct. My point of explaining outside family members, you can not "just give a gf a gun". I was shocked by your post stating it was legal, but IMNAL.

    From bac0nfat
    Where a person purchases a firearm
    with the intent of making a gift of the
    firearm to another person, the person
    making the purchase is indeed the true
    purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
    in these instances. In the above example,
    if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
    with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
    as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
    lawfully have completed Form 4473.
    Last edited by Fraggle09027; July 1st, 2011 at 03:08 PM.
    Fraggle09027 is not a lawyer. Any advice is just advice (my own 2 cents) and is not expressed or implied as legal advice.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    New Britain Township, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Good OC Conversation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle09027 View Post
    That was what I though was correct. My point of explaining outside family members, you can not "just give a gf a gun". I was shocked by your post stating it was legal, but IMNAL.

    From bac0nfat
    It's legal to buy a gun with the intent to give it to someone else. That part I know is 100% true. What I'm unsure of, is do you still need to transfer it through an FFL from the giver to the "giftee" after the initial purchase is made?

    My original post still holds true; that is taken directly off the ATF website.

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