Could Sunday hunting be on its' way? HB 1760

[Ranger P229]

But that doesn't do anything to protect landowners.

I accept that you may have a valid point in your arguments in defense of landowners, but they still have to deal with the same type of disrespect for their property the other six days of the week during hunting season, right?
If you can limit that disrespect by shortening the hunting season, can't you just about eliminate it altogether by eliminating hunting season?

Actually, maybe the best balance is to only allow hunting on Sundays.

Advantages:

1. Landowners would only have to deal with the disrespectful jack-wagons you mentioned one day a week instead of six days a week. But they'd still also get a lot of problem deer killed. Dealing with morons for one day a week might be worth it for that.

2. Game Wardens would know that anyone hunting on any day other than Sunday was just flat out poaching. Let's make their job easier.

3. It would reduce truancy in rural schools. Kids wouldn't be able to skip school and go hunting during the week anymore. You'd also have plenty of time for team sports and academic achievement during the week and on Saturdays.

4. It would improve worker productivity. Guys wouldn't be calling off work during the week to go hunting. And they wouldn't need to be distracted or sneak off half an hour early on Friday afternoon to get an early start for their hunting camps. No hurry... you can't hunt 'til Sunday anyhow.

Yep, Sunday-only hunting could do a whole lot of good for landowners and for the general population of Pennsylvania.
Let's get a referendum going...


At the end of the day, the biggest reason we don't have Sunday hunting is because a long, long, long time ago, someone decided it would be "improper." I'm not a fan of being governed by irrational laws just because that's the way it's always been done.

If we tried Sunday hunting and all the sudden there was naked juggling, panic in the streets, increased rates of teen pregnancy, shortages of Spaghettio's (R), and just too many deer getting killed, then we would have actual reasons to make it a six-day hunting week. That might make sense. Someone could use reason and fact to make the case at least.

Until then, we're just doing it because that's what we've always done (probably because legislators' wives back in the day told them that if they didn't make it illegal to hunt on the Sabbath, there weren't going to be any babies made on the Sabbath either).

The difference between tresspassing on any given weekday and a saturday is like night and day. Understanding that more people hunt on weekends, and that Sundays would bring all the same issues to landowners Saturdays do isn't that hard to understand, unless you're trying not to.

To be honest, your arguments about stopping all hunting or only allowing hunting on Sundays are flat out absurd. The system we have works, the two you've suggested would work out for no one, and I'm sure you know that. Its hardly an unreasonable jump to assume that if tresspassing is a serious issue on Saturdays, but not weekdays, that it would be on Sundays as well. If you'd like to keep thinking about teen pregnancy and teen juggling thats fine.

For the 3rd or fourth time in this thread- I'm all for PGC having control of Sunday Hunting. I think using religion as an excuse for anything is assinine, but I believe there are plenty of reasons why no Sunday hunting is a good thing, and I hope the PGC keeps it that way if they ever get control of Sunday Hunting.

[goon]

The difference between tresspassing on any given weekday and a saturday is like night and day. Understanding that more people hunt on weekends, and that Sundays would bring all the same issues to landowners Saturdays do isn't that hard to understand, unless you're trying not to.

To be honest, your arguments about stopping all hunting or only allowing hunting on Sundays are flat out absurd. The system we have works, the two you've suggested would work out for no one, and I'm sure you know that. Its hardly an unreasonable jump to assume that if tresspassing is a serious issue on Saturdays, but not weekdays, that it would be on Sundays as well. If you'd like to keep thinking about teen pregnancy and teen juggling thats fine.

For the 3rd or fourth time in this thread- I'm all for PGC having control of Sunday Hunting. I think using religion as an excuse for anything is assinine, but I believe there are plenty of reasons why no Sunday hunting is a good thing, and I hope the PGC keeps it that way if they ever get control of Sunday Hunting.

So a Monday-Friday hunting season would work better to protect landowners then? I guess I'd be OK with that.

If you wanted to hunt, you wouldn't need to do it on Saturday any more than anyone else needs to hunt on Sunday.
If it was that important to you, you could always schedule some time off through the week (unless you've used your vacation time on something else). If hunting was that important to you and you really wanted to get out there and do it, you'd find the time, right?
With five days to hunt, there'd still be plenty of time. No one needs to hunt six days a week. Why do you need to be so greedy? There could be people who want to go enjoy the woods without hunting getting in the way. And landowners may appreciate the rest.

Like I said before, very few people out there are really hunting to put meat on the table. If they can afford gas for the ATV, cigarettes, and Copenhagen, they can also afford to buy some Ramen noodles and ground beef. I wouldn't feel a bit of guilt for restricting their sport to five days a week. No one is going to starve to death in PA if you can only hunt during the week.

Seriously though, I have to admit that my arguments are absurd. But they're also the same arguments that people sling out against Sunday hunting. When I sling them back at them, all the sudden I'm the crazy one. Fact is though, those arguments can be followed out and used against all hunting in PA.

[joseywales]

I wouldn't feel a bit of guilt for restricting their sport to five days a week. No one is going to starve to death in PA if you can only hunt during the week.

Getting our youth out in the field would be even more difficult than it is today. One member wrote that it's more about getting children out in the woods than it is hunting and there's some truth to that. However, getting our youth outdoors could keep them interested in the outdoors, preservation, etc. but it won't do much to save the future of the hunting sports. Just a thought...

[goon]

Getting our youth out in the field would be even more difficult than it is today. One member wrote that it's more about getting children out in the woods than it is hunting and there's some truth to that. However, getting our youth outdoors could keep them interested in the outdoors, preservation, etc. but it won't do much to save the future of the hunting sports. Just a thought...

And it would be all that much easier if you had two days a weekend to get the youngsters out.
Guess I stand corrected.

Really, I'm all for hunting. So much in fact that I think people should be able to do it every day of the week, and even with those scary black rifles.

[Ranger P229]

Seriously though, I have to admit that my arguments are absurd. But they're also the same arguments that people sling out against Sunday hunting. When I sling them back at them, all the sudden I'm the crazy one. Fact is though, those arguments can be followed out and used against all hunting in PA.

Following arguments to the utmost extreme may seem like a clever way of arguing on the Internet, but here in the real world things don't work like that.

Your argument is essentially the same as saying "any regulation on guns can be followed through to a ban on all guns". But the reality is that we realize that there are situations and circumstances in which we DO want regulation, and the same is true with hunting.

Ill give you another example. PA's state parks do not allow groundhog hunting. They do not allow groundhog hunting because it takes place during peak use by non-hunters, it is generally done with very flat shooting rifles in open areas, areas that tend to be used for other forms of recreation. Now, using your logic all hunting should be banned in state parks because deer hunters use flat shooting cartridges and the whole park is public use, but the same logic doesn't apply equally to groundhog hunting as deer hunting in parks. Just as an argument against Sunday hunting does not equal a valid argument against all hunting.

[Yellowfin]

Your argument is essentially the same as saying "any regulation on guns can be followed through to a ban on all guns". But the reality is that we realize that there are situations and circumstances in which we DO want regulation, and the same is true with hunting.

Only to the point in that it curbs irresponsibility specifically without handicapping the utility towards responsible use. Banning Sunday hunting is not an example of that. An example of a desirable regulation is the requirement of hunter safety courses for new hunting licensees--effectiveness of use is actually increased rather than diminished, it costs comparatively little in the grand scheme of things, and there are no measurable adverse affects. Nobody loses much time to hunt, no revenue lost, etc. Another example is serial numbers on guns--makes property verification easier for purposes of insurance claims, warranty service, etc.

The repeated example of trespassing and negligence is NOT remedied by time/day restriction, it is in fact made worse. It can and should be addressed by specific enforcement against those particular problems--the lack of enforcement IS the problem and should be addressed as that. Why this is so problematic to be honest about and interested in solving THAT directly instead of this extrapolated conjecture is utterly ridiculous.

Ill give you another example. PA's state parks do not allow groundhog hunting. They do not allow groundhog hunting because it takes place during peak use by non-hunters, it is generally done with very flat shooting rifles in open areas, areas that tend to be used for other forms of recreation. Now, using your logic all hunting should be banned in state parks because deer hunters use flat shooting cartridges and the whole park is public use, but the same logic doesn't apply equally to groundhog hunting as deer hunting in parks. Just as an argument against Sunday hunting does not equal a valid argument against all hunting.

Good point in that specific instance, however that particular example holds true in that it isn't destructive of the value or diminishing the quality of the particular hunting in question. Typically groundhogs aren't thought of as pests in state parks.

[goon]

Following arguments to the utmost extreme may seem like a clever way of arguing on the Internet, but here in the real world things don't work like that....

You are the one who brought up the needs of landowners and that is a legitimate concern. In fact, it may be one of the few arguments I've read on this subject that doesn't just ring of "that's how we always done it so that's how we're gonna keep doin' it!"

If you fear that landowners may be victimized on Sundays, why don't you also care just as much that they are being victimized on the other six days of the week?

And if preventing hunting on Sunday protects them from being victimized on Sunday, why wouldn't preventing hunting on Saturday protect them from having to confront armed trespassers or wait for the police to show up on the day when you say it is most likely? It's not a stretch to assume that if there are no hunters in the woods on Saturday, then no hunters can victimize anyone on Saturday.
This is exactly the same logic you have applied to Sundays, so why is it different on Saturdays?


In case I haven't made this clear yet, I agree with Yellowfin that punishing offending parties is a better solution than an archaic law with a lot of room for improvement.

[Ranger P229]

You are the one who brought up the needs of landowners and that is a legitimate concern. In fact, it may be one of the few arguments I've read on this subject that doesn't just ring of "that's how we always done it so that's how we're gonna keep doin' it!"

If you fear that landowners may be victimized on Sundays, why don't you also care just as much that they are being victimized on the other six days of the week?

And if preventing hunting on Sunday protects them from being victimized on Sunday, why wouldn't preventing hunting on Saturday protect them from having to confront armed trespassers or wait for the police to show up on the day when you say it is most likely? It's not a stretch to assume that if there are no hunters in the woods on Saturday, then no hunters can victimize anyone on Saturday.
This is exactly the same logic you have applied to Sundays, so why is it different on Saturdays?


In case I haven't made this clear yet, I agree with Yellowfin that punishing offending parties is a better solution than an archaic law with a lot of room for improvement.

I'm going to say this for one last time- MORE PEOPLE HUNT ON WEEKENDS THAN ON WEEKDAYS. Trespassing isn't really an issue on weekdays, it is on Saturdays. When weekday trespassing becomes an issue, ill worry about it.

I would have no problem with shutting down Saturdays to hunting. Wouldn't bother me a bit. But, as I said before, I recognize that here in the real world that won't happen. Considering that we already have very little Sunday hunting, keeping it that way is a much more likely reality than closing Saturdays to hunting as well.

[Ranger P229]

The repeated example of trespassing and negligence is NOT remedied by time/day restriction, it is in fact made worse. It can and should be addressed by specific enforcement against those particular problems--the lack of enforcement IS the problem and should be addressed as that. Why this is so problematic to be honest about and interested in solving THAT directly instead of this extrapolated conjecture is utterly ridiculous.

Good point in that specific instance, however that particular example holds true in that it isn't destructive of the value or diminishing the quality of the particular hunting in question. Typically groundhogs aren't thought of as pests in state parks.

The problem is that hunting regulations, seasons, and tresspassing are linked. Arguing that it needs to be addressed as its own issue is fine, but at the same time you're advocating for the addition of another weekend day of hunting which would add to the problem. Why make things worse before fixing the problem?

[CL3]

I'm going to say this for one last time- MORE PEOPLE HUNT ON WEEKENDS THAN ON WEEKDAYS. Trespassing isn't really an issue on weekdays, it is on Saturdays.

It's not just hunters who trespass. ATV-ers don't have "seasons" either. We're talking about a handful of days tops that would have actual Sunday Hunting (for the game people WANT to hunt). Besides, crow & 'yote hunters can already trespass on Sunday.