Could Sunday hunting be on its' way? HB 1760

[Ranger P229]

Actually, I've never heard of anyone who wanted to buy a hunting license and couldn't. I think there is plenty of "opportunity to hunt"... if you can do it on Saturday.

Shorter seasons wouldn't actually be "shorter" if you could hunt more days of the week. You could still do the math to get X number of deer knocked off to keep the population under control. The difference wouldn't be fewer days, just different days.
The number of deer killed on weekends may increase slightly, but you'd be dividing it by two days instead of one. The total number of deer killed could still be worked out to be within the target range.

Opening Sundays to "primitive" hunting would still let guys who can't hunt on other days get out and enjoy the woods. Sorry, but not everyone can build his entire life around the six days a week, two weeks a year, when he (or she) can legally kill a deer with a .30'06. If you opened Sundays to bows and muzzleloaders, it probably wouldn't result in a whole lot more deer killed. But people who wanted to get more time in the woods may buy more muzzleloader or archery licenses. They may also buy bows and muzzleloaders that they otherwise wouldn't have bought. They'd probably also buy coffee from Sheetz and bacon and eggs from places that fed hunters. And they'd get to be out hunting. I support that.

Really though, why not just open it to regular hunting with whatever rules the season already has? Bows, flintlocks, cartridge rifles... whatever.

After having lived in AK, where people actually do hunt for food, the hunting that goes on in PA just seems like some game to me. People argue about who should be able to hunt with what on which days... but who cares? Go out, get your meat, enjoy your time in the woods, and stop trying to screw the other guy.
And that is why I oppose a ban on Sunday hunting... because it is just a childish way to keep some poor bastard from getting out and enjoying the woods.

Shorter seasons are shorter, period. Youre also missing my point about harvest rates on weekends vs. weekdays. If, for example, 120,000 deer are harvested any given saturday of the season, and 10,000 on a Friday, you cant really think that opening a Sunday to hunting but taking away a weekday would result in the same level of harvest. If you add Sundays to any of the big game seasons and you want to keep harvest rates the same you'd have to cut the season by a lot more than just an equal number of weekdays.

If you want to hunt more than you are currently, take some time off during your preferred season and hunt on week days. I don't buy this crap that "oh hunting is so important to me but there's no way I can ever hunt any day but Sundays!" If you're not finding time to hunt, it's not that important to you.

So people who currently don't hunt archery or muzzleloader will if they can hunt on Sunday, even though they don't now? Our archery season is over a month long, there is LOTS of opportunity to try archery or muzzleloader as is.

Economic benefit from hunting is nice, but it has nothing to do with the PGC or game management.

Nothing is stopping you from going out and enjoying the woods in any number of ways on a Sunday but you. You can't step out your door on a Sunday during hunting season without going hunting?

Who cares? One group that cares very much is land owners. Sometime, I hope you get to see the level of trespassing that landowners, especially in special regs areas, deal with during deer season. Saturdays can be an absolute nightmare for someone who owns land in 2B. No trespassing signs? They'll be ripped down yearly. Don't like quads on your land? Tough shit, they'll be there. Trucks will be blocking your driveway, people will be in or vandalizing your stands, and the landowners are left either waiting for local police to respond and trudge through the woods, or they have to confront a bunch of armed folks that don't give a shit about your private property rights. Sundays are a welcome reprieve for a lot of landowners in PA.

[joseywales]

Not picking sides, but have some comments to think about

Nothing is stopping you from going out and enjoying the woods in any number of ways on a Sunday but you. You can't step out your door on a Sunday during hunting season without going hunting? I can. But the future of our sport is in school Monday to Friday And, if they are in organized sports, it really only leaves Sunday. That said, I am fortunate that I can hunt during the week and because if issues you state below, I'm not certain I want my kids in the field with some of these yahoos.

Who cares? One group that cares very much is land owners. Sometime, I hope you get to see the level of trespassing that landowners, especially in special regs areas, deal with during deer season. Saturdays can be an absolute nightmare for someone who owns land in 2B. No trespassing signs? They'll be ripped down yearly. Don't like quads on your land? Tough shit, they'll be there. Trucks will be blocking your driveway, people will be in or vandalizing your stands, and the landowners are left either waiting for local police to respond and trudge through the woods, or they have to confront a bunch of armed folks that don't give a shit about your private property rights. Sundays are a welcome reprieve for a lot of landowners in PA.

Agreed, there are a lot of ignorant folks out there, the aforementioned yahoos. However, we should not build regulations based on those who don't follow them - that's similar to gun control, is it not? The ignorant hunters need to be addressed, not be given the power to control the regs. Easier said than done for sure! As a landowner, I would probably be in jail already, because it would drive me nuts and I doubt law enforcement has the resources to police these incidents.

Like everything else, there's no easy answer. But we need to consider all points and sides before we change or prevent hunting opportunities.

[Ranger P229]

I hear you about young hunters. Kids not getting outside is a huge problem, for the future of hunting, fishing, and in my opinion what is (or was) the rural way of life in America.

That being said, how did I learn to love hunting without being able to hunt Sundays? What's changed that makes kids need more opportunities to hunt now to be engaged? I really don't know. I have a hard time relating it to myself, because, according to my father, once I was old enough to be mobile he showed me that living things live under rocks and logs and you can find them if you look, and I was hooked on the outdoors from then on.

I attended a conference aimed at environmental educators a few years ago, and the key speaker was not very popular. He said that no single outdoor experience, no matter how great, is enough to result in a sustained love of the outdoors. He claimed that almost universally people who enjoy nature as adults had almost constant access to it as a child.

So on one hand, would Sunday hunting benefit the future of hunting by getting more kids involved? Maybe. Would it just be a chance for a bunch of kids to try hunting once and then go back to their X-boxes? Maybe.

I really believe that looking at the issue as one of hunting, or fishing, or hiking, is narrow minded. If you want to increase young hunters, get kids into the outdoors on a regular basis BEFORE they're even old enough to hunt. I wonder if waiting until they're old enough to hunt to get them afield is too little too late.

If Something like Sunday hunting for youth hunters only could happen I would be in favor of that. Might actually be a better way to introduce kids to hunting. My first few years deer hunting were not very positive experiences as a young teen because of other asshole hunters.

[joseywales]

Well said.

I have children in college and in elementary school. I don't see any them wanting to hunt, but the younger ones shoot airguns, rimfire, and archery, like fishing and golf. Because of limited access, time, etc., we do some of that indoors. It's good family fun together, but it's not always outdoor time.

We did just finish the summer of Nike. The summer of "just do it". Whatever tickets or opportunities presented themselves (usually free), we just did it. Some tickets we got through work, etc. so we didn't choose the activity, but we just did it. Teaching an adventurous spirit I guess:

Indy 400 race at the Poconos. My girls absolutely love that. It's not NASCAR, thank goodness, because NASCAR is not as family-friendly as Indy.

Horseback riding. My 8 year old was tearing up when she first got on the horse. We talked her off the ledge and she agreed to continue. If she had gotten off 5 minutes later, I still couldn't have been prouder for her even staying on to begin with. She was so tiny compared to that horse and now she had to control it. But she finished the entire 1 hour ride, patting the horse as she rode. Kicked and pulled him to keep him from eating shrubs. She was having a ball.

The Bunker at the Greenbrier - that was just the wife I, but that was a hoot. And again, the kids see us being adventurous and it helps.

We camped with our older children when they were young, but the outdoors just didn't take with them. They never had an adventurous spirit. By encouraging my younger girls to be adventurous, I think they will be open to the outdoors, hunting, etc. but target shooting, fishing, etc. is just fine with me!

Next, we're going to work on biking some of the excellent trails we have nearby. Both working full time, time afield can be hard to come by.

[CL3]

Trespass and general slobism occurs on Saturdays or any day. It should not be a reason against Sunday hunting.

[joseywales]

Trespass and general slobism occurs on Saturdays or any day. It should not be a reason against Sunday hunting.

I believe Ranger's point was that Sundays currently give the landowners a break from the 6 days of hassle these goofs create. It's shame, because the majority of hunters are responsible and respectful.

[God's Country]

What the PGC can do and should do is start the firearm season on a Saturday like every other season (except flintlock). Opening day would be a weekend, it would add one extra day if the rest of the reason remained the same. Then Sunday hunting may seem more feasible down the road. At a minimum it would net the same number of hunting days that adding Sunday would, assuming the rest of the season remained the same.

[goon]

Shorter seasons are shorter, period. Youre also missing my point about harvest rates on weekends vs. weekdays. If, for example, 120,000 deer are harvested any given saturday of the season, and 10,000 on a Friday, you cant really think that opening a Sunday to hunting but taking away a weekday would result in the same level of harvest. If you add Sundays to any of the big game seasons and you want to keep harvest rates the same you'd have to cut the season by a lot more than just an equal number of weekdays.

....

One group that cares very much is land owners. Sometime, I hope you get to see the level of trespassing that landowners, especially in special regs areas, deal with during deer season. Saturdays can be an absolute nightmare for someone who owns land in 2B. No trespassing signs? They'll be ripped down yearly. Don't like quads on your land? Tough shit, they'll be there. Trucks will be blocking your driveway, people will be in or vandalizing your stands, and the landowners are left either waiting for local police to respond and trudge through the woods, or they have to confront a bunch of armed folks that don't give a shit about your private property rights. Sundays are a welcome reprieve for a lot of landowners in PA.

Right now, there is no choice but to go out and kill 100,000 deer on Saturday. You can't hunt them on Sunday. Anyone who wants to get one had better get it then. If Sunday was a possibility, there wouldn't be so much pressure to kill so many on Saturday right up to the very second of when it becomes unsafe to shoot... and then a little past it.

On season length... if you've got 14 days but you can only hunt for 12 of them, then that season is two days shorter already. If you work it so you have the same number of days... then the season isn't shorter.
I like the idea floated above of starting on the Saturday before instead of the Monday. You could even experiment for a year or two and just allow hunting that whole weekend. Then we wouldn't have to have pointless arguments about what "would" happen. We'd have facts to show us what does happen.

As for landowners... I agree with you.
They have to put up with way too much BS with people tearing down their signs, trespassing, tearing up their land and fields with quads, parking trucks where they shouldn't be, shooting in unsafe directions, and a whole host of other issues.
It's so much trouble that we should just eliminate hunting in PA altogether. Allow landowners to kill problem deer that are damaging their crops or property, but otherwise, let's just get rid of hunting.
Very few people really need the meat they get from hunting. If they can afford the empty cigarette packs and snuff boxes they leave everywhere and the 4-wheelers they tear the hell out of stuff with, then they can afford to buy some hamburger instead.
Hunters are just too much of a nuisance and a danger to the public to allow hunting in PA to continue.

[Ranger P229]

Right now, there is no choice but to go out and kill 100,000 deer on Saturday. You can't hunt them on Sunday. Anyone who wants to get one had better get it then. If Sunday was a possibility, there wouldn't be so much pressure to kill so many on Saturday right up to the very second of when it becomes unsafe to shoot... and then a little past it.

On season length... if you've got 14 days but you can only hunt for 12 of them, then that season is two days shorter already. If you work it so you have the same number of days... then the season isn't shorter.
I like the idea floated above of starting on the Saturday before instead of the Monday. You could even experiment for a year or two and just allow hunting that whole weekend. Then we wouldn't have to have pointless arguments about what "would" happen. We'd have facts to show us what does happen.

As for landowners... I agree with you.
They have to put up with way too much BS with people tearing down their signs, trespassing, tearing up their land and fields with quads, parking trucks where they shouldn't be, shooting in unsafe directions, and a whole host of other issues.
It's so much trouble that we should just eliminate hunting in PA altogether. Allow landowners to kill problem deer that are damaging their crops or property, but otherwise, let's just get rid of hunting.
Very few people really need the meat they get from hunting. If they can afford the empty cigarette packs and snuff boxes they leave everywhere and the 4-wheelers they tear the hell out of stuff with, then they can afford to buy some hamburger instead.
Hunters are just too much of a nuisance and a danger to the public to allow hunting in PA to continue.

Or, you could take a couple days off work and hunt during the week, unless you use all your vacation time on other things. We have lots of time to hunt already, if you actually want to.

[goon]

Or, you could take a couple days off work and hunt during the week, unless you use all your vacation time on other things. We have lots of time to hunt already, if you actually want to.

But that doesn't do anything to protect landowners.

I accept that you may have a valid point in your arguments in defense of landowners, but they still have to deal with the same type of disrespect for their property the other six days of the week during hunting season, right?
If you can limit that disrespect by shortening the hunting season, can't you just about eliminate it altogether by eliminating hunting season?

Actually, maybe the best balance is to only allow hunting on Sundays.

Advantages:

1. Landowners would only have to deal with the disrespectful jack-wagons you mentioned one day a week instead of six days a week. But they'd still also get a lot of problem deer killed. Dealing with morons for one day a week might be worth it for that.

2. Game Wardens would know that anyone hunting on any day other than Sunday was just flat out poaching. Let's make their job easier.

3. It would reduce truancy in rural schools. Kids wouldn't be able to skip school and go hunting during the week anymore. You'd also have plenty of time for team sports and academic achievement during the week and on Saturdays.

4. It would improve worker productivity. Guys wouldn't be calling off work during the week to go hunting. And they wouldn't need to be distracted or sneak off half an hour early on Friday afternoon to get an early start for their hunting camps. No hurry... you can't hunt 'til Sunday anyhow.

Yep, Sunday-only hunting could do a whole lot of good for landowners and for the general population of Pennsylvania.
Let's get a referendum going...


At the end of the day, the biggest reason we don't have Sunday hunting is because a long, long, long time ago, someone decided it would be "improper." I'm not a fan of being governed by irrational laws just because that's the way it's always been done.

If we tried Sunday hunting and all the sudden there was naked juggling, panic in the streets, increased rates of teen pregnancy, shortages of Spaghettio's (R), and just too many deer getting killed, then we would have actual reasons to make it a six-day hunting week. That might make sense. Someone could use reason and fact to make the case at least.

Until then, we're just doing it because that's what we've always done (probably because legislators' wives back in the day told them that if they didn't make it illegal to hunt on the Sabbath, there weren't going to be any babies made on the Sabbath either).