Firearms Stopping Power: A Different Perspective

[XD40coyote]

What, no 10mm, including +p+ stats? You can drop a wild hog, a deer, and even a black bear with 10mm.

Good to see the little .22 doing so well. I am very good with my 10 shot .22 revolver. Golf balls and raccoons do not like me. I am much better shooting the .22 than 9mm, .40, and .45. Damn recoil...

[SecurityPRO]

I'm with you XD, where's the 10mm data???
I'm feeling left out like a BB gun?!?

[Valorius]

It would seem that the author of the report was not able to collect any sort of a meaningful number of 10mm shootings. It is a pretty rare caliber in defensive circles.

[JasonK007]

Folks, keep in mind that the data presented in the OP only draws one valid scientific and statistical conclusion: that the sample sizes are insufficient.

Not trying to pooh-pooh the thread, just pointing out the mathematical reality: no statistically valid conclusions can or should be drawn from this study.

If I had done the math right, it looks like this study was done based on around 1800 shootings. That's a pretty good sample size but not nearly as good as it can be based on the total amount of shootings. I have a link here somewhere that talks about which caliber is the best for self defense as well. If I can find it, I'll post that one. It would be nice to compare and contrast.

The thing that I have problems wrapping my head around is how a .22 has a higher 1-stop than a larger caliber such as a 44. I mean, the wound size of a 44 would be much greater which equals more damage. The logic there does not make sense to me.

Here's the article. I'll just copy/paste the 9mm section for viewing.

http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

9 mm Parabellum Caliber: (9 mm Lugar, 9 mm NATO, 9 x 19 mm, 9 mm)
One Shot Stopping Success: 63-91% (Actual)
Self Defense Rating: Better
Recommended Cartridges:

Cor-Bon +P JHP 115 grains 91%
Federal +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Winchester +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Remington +P+ JHP 115 grains 89%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" +P+ JHP 124 grains 86%
Federal "Nyclad" LHP 124 grains 84%
Winchester "Silvertip" JHP 115 grains 83%
Federal JHP 115 grains 82%
Remington JHP 115 grains 81%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" JHP 124 grains 81%
CCI JHP 115 grains 79%


The 9 mm is the world's most popular pistol cartridge. In FMJ, with a one shot stopping success of only 63%, the 9 mm is not a superlative manstopper. Use ball ammunition for practice only. Use JHP for self defense.

The 9 mm cartridge exhibits penetration of 10 to 12 inches.

Ammunition for the 9 mm is available in three pressure classes: standard pressure, high pressure "+P", and ultra high pressure "+P+". High and ultra high pressure rounds should be used only in newer handguns manufactured since approximately 1985. It is best to use this ammunition sparingly.

The most powerful high pressure round, the Cor-Bon +P, JHP, 115 grains, is the best cartridge in 9 mm for self defense use due to its proven performance in real world aggressive encounters. In older guns, however, it may either not cycle properly or be too powerful. The best standard pressure cartridges are the Federal "Nyclad", LHP, 124 grains, and 115 grain, JHP ammunition produced by any of the top five manufacturers.

For modern guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal JHP, the Remington +P, JHP, 115 grains, may be a reliable alternative. The standard pressure Remington JHP, 115 grains, is well suited for use in most older guns.

For optimum performance, it is recommended that one not use any 9 mm JHP or LHP ammunition that is heavier than 124 grains......

[orionz06]

If I had done the math right, it looks like this study was done based on around 1800 shootings. That's a pretty good sample size but not nearly as good as it can be based on the total amount of shootings. I have a link here somewhere that talks about which caliber is the best for self defense as well. If I can find it, I'll post that one. It would be nice to compare and contrast.

The thing that I have problems wrapping my head around is how a .22 has a higher 1-stop than a larger caliber such as a 44. I mean, the wound size of a 44 would be much greater which equals more damage. The logic there does not make sense to me.

Here's the article. I'll just copy/paste the 9mm section for viewing.

http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

9 mm Parabellum Caliber: (9 mm Lugar, 9 mm NATO, 9 x 19 mm, 9 mm)
One Shot Stopping Success: 63-91% (Actual)
Self Defense Rating: Better
Recommended Cartridges:

Cor-Bon +P JHP 115 grains 91%
Federal +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Winchester +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Remington +P+ JHP 115 grains 89%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" +P+ JHP 124 grains 86%
Federal "Nyclad" LHP 124 grains 84%
Winchester "Silvertip" JHP 115 grains 83%
Federal JHP 115 grains 82%
Remington JHP 115 grains 81%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" JHP 124 grains 81%
CCI JHP 115 grains 79%


The 9 mm is the world's most popular pistol cartridge. In FMJ, with a one shot stopping success of only 63%, the 9 mm is not a superlative manstopper. Use ball ammunition for practice only. Use JHP for self defense.

The 9 mm cartridge exhibits penetration of 10 to 12 inches.

Ammunition for the 9 mm is available in three pressure classes: standard pressure, high pressure "+P", and ultra high pressure "+P+". High and ultra high pressure rounds should be used only in newer handguns manufactured since approximately 1985. It is best to use this ammunition sparingly.

The most powerful high pressure round, the Cor-Bon +P, JHP, 115 grains, is the best cartridge in 9 mm for self defense use due to its proven performance in real world aggressive encounters. In older guns, however, it may either not cycle properly or be too powerful. The best standard pressure cartridges are the Federal "Nyclad", LHP, 124 grains, and 115 grain, JHP ammunition produced by any of the top five manufacturers.

For modern guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal JHP, the Remington +P, JHP, 115 grains, may be a reliable alternative. The standard pressure Remington JHP, 115 grains, is well suited for use in most older guns.

For optimum performance, it is recommended that one not use any 9 mm JHP or LHP ammunition that is heavier than 124 grains......

As I asked above, consider the context of the .22 being used. Are the "1 shot stops" cleaning accidents or other close proximity accidents that likely hit the head? There is the statement (unproven as far as I know) that .22's kill more people every year than any other gun.

As for many of these articles, be weary a little as the rounds suggested are for the most part old as hell and not worth using.

[JasonK007]

As I asked above, consider the context of the .22 being used. Are the "1 shot stops" cleaning accidents or other close proximity accidents that likely hit the head? There is the statement (unproven as far as I know) that .22's kill more people every year than any other gun.

As for many of these articles, be weary a little as the rounds suggested are for the most part old as hell and not worth using.

I can see your point. Plus I feel that people are more careless with a .22 than any other caliber, excluding a pellet gun, because they feel that .22s won't kill.

[PocketProtector]

Location Location Location

[tommy610]

From some of the comments here, it looks like a very valuable study would be to find out what percentage of carriers, per caliber, "feel safe", when carrying that caliber. Apparently that's considered a good indicator of a caliber's effectiveness.

[Irwin Inhabitant]

I am a fan of the .45 ACP. but it goes to show you that its not the "wonder bullet" that most .45 owners swear by.

Most .45 ACP people say "Well, with a .45 you only need one shot" but the same people who say that have no idea about a real defensive shooting scenario.

From the data the OP posted, it looks like .40 is really a good choice.
You get quality stopping power and decent magazine capacity for multiple threats.

Of course it is!

Seriously, shot placement is everything.One well placed shot, even a .22LR, by a practiced shooter, can sometimes have much more effective stopping results than a "spray and pray" full magazine discharge by an inexperienced shooter in panic mode.

I can't find the link right now, but this is a true story about a shootout.
3 young punk 'gangstas' tried to rob a guy who was about 70 years old. They followed him from an ATM.

The punks, armed with hi-cap semi-autos in .40 and 9mm, chased the guy into a corner of a parking garage. They fired nearly 40 rounds at the old guy, standing out in the open, while the old guy took cover behind cars. Obviously their plan was to keep shooting and close in on him to rob him, dead or not.

The old guy was armed with a 1960's model J-frame .38 special revolver. He returned fire with 3 well disciplined shots. 3 shots and 3 center of mass hits.

Game over, punks lost.
Don't recall if any of the punks died, but I do remember that no charges were filed against the old man, who was described as an "avid outdoorsman who enjoys fishing in his spare time".
Obviously he enjoys some time at the range too.

[OwnTheRide]

If I had done the math right, it looks like this study was done based on around 1800 shootings. That's a pretty good sample size but not nearly as good as it can be based on the total amount of shootings. I have a link here somewhere that talks about which caliber is the best for self defense as well. If I can find it, I'll post that one. It would be nice to compare and contrast.

If we were to take them together, the minimum sample size would be around 10,000. I think it would be notably more accurate to have a sample size of 10,000 per caliber.

The thing that I have problems wrapping my head around is how a .22 has a higher 1-stop than a larger caliber such as a 44. I mean, the wound size of a 44 would be much greater which equals more damage. The logic there does not make sense to me.

That's a reflection on the woeful inadequacy of the sample size.

Sample size aside, this was not a controlled experiment. Which means the data can't be collated in the way it has been, at least not to reach some of the conclusions it has.

I'm not saying that this study is of no use. I'm only saying that I would not put much (any) weight on the statistical conclusions it reaches. I do not make these statements from a ".XX caliber should be the best!!" stance, I make them from the stance of an engineer, mathematician, and scientist.