Help legalize semi-auto in PA HB 347 2011-2012

[Yellowfin]

STILL no scheduled meetings for this committee? Why the heck do they call it a committee if there aren't any meetings?!?!

Its funny how my friend hunts coyote in NYS with an AR15 and here in PA you can not! go figure, that would be pretty cool though!

Funny, it's freakin' pathetic. A state that has a BAN on AR15 configurations that are legal in PA has brains enough to understand to have them legal for hunting, versus a state with VASTLY more gun freedom that to date has not. Seriously, if that doesn't piss you off you're not paying attention.

[freddy g]

STILL no scheduled meetings for this committee? Why the heck do they call it a committee if there aren't any meetings?!?!
Funny, it's freakin' pathetic. A state that has a BAN on AR15 configurations that are legal in PA has brains enough to understand to have them legal for hunting, versus a state with VASTLY more gun freedom that to date has not. Seriously, if that doesn't piss you off you're not paying attention.

I hope you realize a was being sarcastic? it is pathetic.

[Dredly]

I hope you realize a was being sarcastic? it is pathetic.

Keep thinking that when you go out opening morning in Delaware forest, think of all those marksmen in Orange with semi's and count how many single shots you hear during the day

[BIGSHOVEL]

I am all for more rights, but the value of a semi in my own experience for mamals is moot in certain situations. I have a Browning Long Track in 7 mag I used out west for Antelope, Elk and Mulies. I only fired a second shot once, after I shot a pronghorn a doe came back in range. I took that rifle 1 year on my annual western retreat through four states.

I retired it that Thanksgiving when I came home. It has not been out of the safe since. Bolt gun's trump in accuracy at distance, 300 yards and up. I knew that long before I left, bought it cheap, had to try it, got that out of my system.

Now, back to PA and most of New England esp. Maine, good god I love Maine but thats a topic for another day. Semi's in my opinion based on where and how I hunt COULD have value in the brush on top of the mountains. Elevated stand no, sneaking around in laurel, yeah. My fear is the Amish and Menonites in their massive driving party's putting that much more lead in the air. All of the stump hunters that are afraid to get lost will still be stump hunters afraid to get lost, can't imagine that group laying out the cash to upgrade from their tasco topped mauser.

AR15's in farmers fields will turn into less landowners allowing trespass on property. The occasional shot at a ground hog is different than a 30 round mag dump on a missed first shot and now retreating ground hog. Most won't but the few that do will ruin it for most as is true with everything fun and available.

Bring on the legalization of semi's and I along with most will embrace it. Few will show why it has been banned all of this time. Sunday hunting is the same argument, controlled by the same folks.

[Yellowfin]

I'll repeat myself so that those keep bringing up the "well, those idiots out there will spray bullets everywhere" meme can learn: TICKET, FINE, AND/OR JAIL those who hose bullets as that's reckless discharge of a firearm, same thing as pointing it up in the air and shooting and/or in the city limits out of an apartment window. Start doing it NOW if you have that problem now. If it's one person doing it, then fine and jail that one, if it's five hundred, fine and jail five hundred. You have game wardens so use them, that's what they're there for. If they don't do it, fire them and get ones who will.

This isn't complicated or hard.

Meanwhile I'm hoping this gets brought up and passed so I can decide between the Savage Mark II FV-SR and the 64 TRR-SR or Remington 597 AAC-SD for my new rabbit and squirrel rifle.

[P89]

Don't be surprised if this takes the next decade to get anywhere.

[Yellowfin]

Don't be surprised if this takes the next decade to get anywhere.

If people are lackluster, unenthusiastic, disorganized, fragmented, and self defeating on the matter, certainly. If the opposite, it could be done this year. It has been said many time of gun owners and our political objectives that our only real obstacle is ourselves.

[C27433]

If people are lackluster, unenthusiastic, disorganized, fragmented, and self defeating on the matter, certainly. If the opposite, it could be done this year. It has been said many time of gun owners and our political objectives that our only real obstacle is ourselves.

Yes, but the fact remains that gun owners are fragmented on this issue, as with other pieces of legislation which have sought support through the PAFOA forums. Gun owners are not a homogenous group, and will differ even on legislation which is considered "pro-gun". Not all gun owners have the same political objectives.

[WhiteFeather]

If people are lackluster, unenthusiastic, disorganized, fragmented, and self defeating on the matter, certainly. If the opposite, it could be done this year. It has been said many time of gun owners and our political objectives that our only real obstacle is ourselves.

Yes, but the fact remains that gun owners are fragmented on this issue, as with other pieces of legislation which have sought support through the PAFOA forums. Gun owners are not a homogenous group, and will differ even on legislation which is considered "pro-gun". Not all gun owners have the same political objectives.

Yepper.... people only seem to care when it effects them personally out of Necessity or self interest.

As in people do what is most necessary to them at any given moment in support of any given legislation or complain it doesn't go far enough for them to lend any support, but will glad take full advantage of what others fought long battle for should they succeed.

many long threads on PAFOA with how someone wants to "convert" a semi-auto rifle into broken action rifle to be legal in their mind.

not that they want to go buy or trade for a cheap bolt, pump, lever gun, its how to get one over on the law with a hardware solution rather than fixing the problem with the laws they don't like with effort like this.

its the quick fix option that is always sought for their personal freedom to hunt with what they want.

Others point out how so many Other states allow hunters the choice to hunt with semi-auto rifles for more opportunity. Other will counter back and rail against how the Irresponsible people spray and pray hunter will shoot everything up IF this is ever legalized in PA and use fear of what IF this ever get changed to make sure it doesn't have a chance.

NO one ever explains or answers fully the question here

why don't other states that allow semi-auto rifles for hunting have all the accidental shootings? the easy reply is they have less hunters, less people less stuff for stray bullets to lodge into, is not as valid, but its a more diffcult case to prove without the supporting data to counter that quick reply.

next is the ones that makes it tougher for the quick reply

Why don’t the people that are disabled that manage to get the very limited exemption in the PA law to be allowed to use a semi-auto rifle to hunt with act irresponsible and shoot up everything?

Is it not the firearm faster action that makes people go trigger happy?

Why is the most densely populated area of PA its legal to use semi-auto shotguns to hunt deer but you are not allowed to use them in the rural parts of PA. IF the argument with semi auto are more dangerous to hunt deer with PA there should be more accidents here with them in urban areas to make the case for no semi-auto, or is just the urban city hunter that are more responsible with firearms than hunters in the country?

don't pull the shotguns are safer than rifle quick reply stuff either..... that dog don' hunt.....the PGC study showed that is not valid. As modern rifled shotgun slugs barrels, with scopes and high tech slugs are very capable of taking deer at 50-100-200 yards plus.
The false perception of the distance a shot gun slug will travel is less the than average deer rifle or somehow a shotgun for hunting deer is safer was proven not true by the PGC, the results suprised lots of people

as Yellowfin & C27433 and Others correctly point out is the problem one of perspective of what is their goal. Sadly most are not willing to fight for items that don't directly have something they want and look at everything as a for whats in it for me narrow view point.

with that said we use the forces that can be gathered in support to attempt to move legislation forward. IF it takes five sessions, that is what it takes with little help only little changes are possible, so don't even dream about something bigger then.

hence the attempt to make the small step approach for change as outline in OP, with even 22 rim fire semi auto rifles for only hunting three animals species to get over this emotions knee jerk reactions, to show that its unfounded.




BTW on Oct 5th in HBG when we were lobbying for several of our Other bills had a few side discussions with Reps along these same lines with the safety considerations (the questions above never gets answered)

we managed to have several spirted dicussions (with a few Reps that are sportsmen) as they often go back and forth on PAFOA on the legal semi-auto question for PA in greater scope than HB 347 would allow for big game and what that would mean to hunting in PA.


seems to be more a question of trust vs freedom of choice

Freedom carries lots of personal responsibly, including fully holding people accountable for their actions along with all the danger of letting other free people exercise the same freedoms we wish to have for ourselves.

As the bottom line your rights shouldn't be denied or restricted by the actions of the few slob hunters, is that not how most gun control laws are leveraged into passage or other rights have been taken away for safety sake?



the end RESULT we even managed to get another sponsor to HB 347 for this HBG lobbying effort.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&BN=0347

SONNEY, CAUSER, CUTLER, DENLINGER, ELLIS, FABRIZIO, FLECK, GEIST, GODSHALL, GROVE, HESS, HUTCHINSON, KORTZ, MARSHALL, METCALFE, METZGAR, PYLE, STEVENSON, CHRISTIANA, BRENNAN, REED, HARHART, LONGIETTI, SCHRODER, GILLEN, HORNAMAN and GABLER

If you are for the concept of allowing semi-auto rifles for hunting, even if its only in the limited form as outline in OP. Please consider doing your part to support other people rights.

As a disclaimer: never real ever seriously hunted anything listed in this HB 347, if this would pass nothing would change a thing to go out hunting for these animals.

so why take the time to post?
why did the Rep even bother to submit the bill then you should be asking?

Its about the freedom of choice is why I bring this to your attention on PAFOA and trying to illustrate about seeing the bigger picture of why you should give a little of your time contacting the Reps to ask for their support.

In the end we can even respectfully agree to disagree with the whole attempt to legalize semi-auto for hunting in PA as no one agrees with everyone all the time

Far more effort has spend debating the subject on PAFOA that could have instead made a difference If that same energy and passion was directed toward a freedom oriented goal as this OR any other proposed legislation pending in HBG.

[C27433]

as Yellowfin & C27433 and Others correctly point out is the problem one of perspective of what is their goal. Sadly most are not willing to fight for items that don't directly have something they want and look at everything as a for whats in it for me narrow view point.

While this is true, it is not only a matter of apathy. There are those in the gun owner community who are actually opposed to the legislation on a matter of principle, who view hunting as an art form to be preserved in which semi-automatic firearms have no place. I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but it's worth bringing attention to for the purpose of clearly understanding the obstacles that this legislation faces. I also think that this position is more difficult (though not impossible) to argue against then the "dangerous spraying of bullets" defense.