Help legalize semi-auto in PA HB 347 2011-2012

[Automan21k]

Big question is the Tarus circuit judge legal to hunt with in PA? It's a semi auto, double action is semi auto, it loads itself all you do is pull the trigger like on an M1

I asked the same question at Gander Mountain here in Harrisburg the guy behind the counter tole me it was perfectly legal and an ideal gun for goose hunting....I immediately asked to speak to someone else. he got mad and asked why, I said the first thing you told me is to hunt geese with a caliber designed for rabbits and squirrels, second you just told me to break the law (5rds vs 3). I was half expecting him to tell me that a Ruger 10/22 is the best gun ever for hunting polar bear in Lancaster county..

I assume you can hunt with it since you can hunt with a DA revolver, but it sounds like a question for the game commission (not that they would answer it, but I'm sure they would try to arrest you for using one anyway).


As for the "elitism" we take our sport seriously. we spend all year preparing for a single shot that may never come. You are confusing elitism with actually caring.

I'm not sure why I care so much about legalizing hunting with semis anymore, I'm positive that a majority of the people who are fighting for this will go charging out into the woods in their tactical gear, and after 20 minutes they will get bored because they haven't shot anything yet and leave the woods never to return.


I was in favor of legalizing crossbows for hunting deer in PA, then I had to pull 2 bolts out of the wall in my parents house, and one out of a playground set at my parents church. I'm sure that they were fired by first time hunters since anyone with experience would have thought about where the bolt could go. Had a kid been killed with that bolt, they wouldn't have fought to make them illegal to hut with again, they would have fought to make them outright illegal, and I don't want to give them any more of an excuse to try by having a bunch of wannabe commandos out in the woods just trying to kill something.

I'm back off the fence. Yachera, you have convinced me. I'll be calling my representative tomorrow to preset my opinion that as an avid hunter and owner of several semi-auto firearms, they shouldn't be in the woods hunting big game, small game, or even pests. As it was mentioned in the first post, this is the first step toward having semi-autos legalized for hunting deer, and while you feel this is a good thing, I must stand my ground and oppose it simply because that is the direction it is heading.

[Ithaca1937]

...
Big question is the Tarus circuit judge legal to hunt with in PA? It's a semi auto, double action is semi auto, it loads itself all you do is pull the trigger like on an M1

The Circuit Judge is not a semi-auto. It does not load itself; the act of you pulling the trigger rotates the cylinder for the next round to be fired. While pulling the trigger is all that is required by the shooter to fire the next round, it is not like a M1.


It would seem that it could possibly be used to legally hunt big game (excluding spring turkey); but not small game or migratory birds. On the Rossi web site they have a disclaimer that "The Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge is sold in North America only as a rifle."; so it would seem it's classified as a rifle.
http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/warning_...cuit_judge.pdf

Basically, for all intents and purposes, it's a .45 caliber rifle that just happens to be able to also fire 410 shotgun shells. Being a rifle it can't be used on mitigatory birds or spring turkey; and being .45 caliber it can't be used on small game; so that only leaves big game like fall turkey, deer, bear, and elk.

[Yachera]

I asked the same question at Gander Mountain here in Harrisburg the guy behind the counter tole me it was perfectly legal and an ideal gun for goose hunting....I immediately asked to speak to someone else. he got mad and asked why, I said the first thing you told me is to hunt geese with a caliber designed for rabbits and squirrels, second you just told me to break the law (5rds vs 3). I was half expecting him to tell me that a Ruger 10/22 is the best gun ever for hunting polar bear in Lancaster county..

I assume you can hunt with it since you can hunt with a DA revolver, but it sounds like a question for the game commission (not that they would answer it, but I'm sure they would try to arrest you for using one anyway).


As for the "elitism" we take our sport seriously. we spend all year preparing for a single shot that may never come. You are confusing elitism with actually caring.

I'm not sure why I care so much about legalizing hunting with semis anymore, I'm positive that a majority of the people who are fighting for this will go charging out into the woods in their tactical gear, and after 20 minutes they will get bored because they haven't shot anything yet and leave the woods never to return.


I was in favor of legalizing crossbows for hunting deer in PA, then I had to pull 2 bolts out of the wall in my parents house, and one out of a playground set at my parents church. I'm sure that they were fired by first time hunters since anyone with experience would have thought about where the bolt could go. Had a kid been killed with that bolt, they wouldn't have fought to make them illegal to hut with again, they would have fought to make them outright illegal, and I don't want to give them any more of an excuse to try by having a bunch of wannabe commandos out in the woods just trying to kill something.

I'm back off the fence. Yachera, you have convinced me. I'll be calling my representative tomorrow to preset my opinion that as an avid hunter and owner of several semi-auto firearms, they shouldn't be in the woods hunting big game, small game, or even pests. As it was mentioned in the first post, this is the first step toward having semi-autos legalized for hunting deer, and while you feel this is a good thing, I must stand my ground and oppose it simply because that is the direction it is heading.

I'm glad I helped you form your opinion. But if I decided to hunt all I would bring would be my M1A with 2 20 rounders, the bayonet lugs hold my knife for me. And if the mall ninja taticool people would get bored after 10 minutes and leave, what's the problem? Again I don't hunt all I want to do is learn the skill.

And as someone in college I had to save up to buy my M1A and I see there being no reason why I should have a separate "hunting" and "defensive" (gives the anti-gunners a nice play on words) weapon espically when it can serve both purposes. I see no reason why semi-autos can't be used for pest species, they do it down south. I've seen two or three guys just open up with ARs into a group of feral pigs. Semi autos have legitimate uses for certain hunting/culling situations.

But what's to stop people from outright banning semiautos if in PA they don't have that "sporting purpose" the general population likes so much? Next couple of high profile shootings and we'll all find ourselves looking for hunting weapons that just so happen to be adequate self defense weapon. Of course that's hyperbole but I think you can get the Crux of my concern. I see legalizing semis as another thing to protect our guns from the antis.

[Yachera]

The Circuit Judge is not a semi-auto. It does not load itself; the act of you pulling the trigger rotates the cylinder for the next round to be fired. While pulling the trigger is all that is required by the shooter to fire the next round, it is not like a M1.


It would seem that it could possibly be used to legally hunt big game (excluding spring turkey); but not small game or migratory birds. On the Rossi web site they have a disclaimer that "The Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge is sold in North America only as a rifle."; so it would seem it's classified as a rifle.
http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/warning_...cuit_judge.pdf

Basically, for all intents and purposes, it's a .45 caliber rifle that just happens to be able to also fire 410 shotgun shells. Being a rifle it can't be used on mitigatory birds or spring turkey; and being .45 caliber it can't be used on small game; so that only leaves big game like fall turkey, deer, bear, and elk.

The Rossi is considered a semiauto in austrailia, they can only have the single action there but semantics aside I understand what you're saying.

If the circuit judge is a rifle than it can have a stock, a sixteen inch barrel, fire shot shells, and the NFA be damned, eh?

[Yellowfin]

Of all of the posts I made on other forums to find out how other state's hunters feel about this, I only had one reply, and that was about bow hunting...so, epic fail.

That's undoubtedly due to the fact that everywhere else but here it's legal and not even a question, so there isn't really anything to say. Only PA is apparently stupid enough to even bring up the idea to not hunt with semi autos.

[thekino]

That's undoubtedly due to the fact that everywhere else but here it's legal and not even a question, so there isn't really anything to say. Only PA is apparently stupid enough to even bring up the idea to not hunt with semi autos.

I lived in NY. I guarantee you that you ain't seen stupid.

[Yellowfin]

I lived in NY. I guarantee you that you ain't seen stupid.

Oh I've made the mistake of living there for a while too, and that's perhaps the most depressing form of stupid I think I've ever seen. However, it's no excuse for PA to exhibit similar stupidity by this whole no semi auto, no Sundays, tags for everything and itemized licensing instead of a single cheap flat fee for everything all included, ridiculously miniscule rifle season, etc. etc. etc.

[Gunplummer]

I am an old goat and I really don't see anything wrong with semi-auto for hunting. I hunt West Virginia every year and usually take one semi along. I like my "Shorti" AR when it is raining bad or really windy and I am walking around. It is short and can be moved quick in thick laurel and I don't really care how wet it gets. I usually put 3-4 rounds in a magazine and thats all.
As far as a "Real hunter", I am the bull of the woods compared to most of you guys. I still use my recurve or longbow and never used a compound. I hunt Public land or land open to anyone that asks. I try to go by the rules no matter how stupid the rules are, and have my own rules too, but do not push them on other people.
Back to WV, I rarely see anyone with a semi-auto or hear one being abused either. It is said that the 30-30 has killed more deer than any other round. It has wounded more too. I have heard many fast 7 shot barrages in WV, Pa. and other states. Not much difference with a pump either. I have killed so many deer that were already wounded when hunting Pa. that it is just sad. Ranger P229 is right. Some of the worst hunting ethics I have ever seen were in good old Pa. It really won't matter if semi-autos are legal or not, it is the people using the guns.

[Yellowfin]

Has anyone other than me pointed out that the spray and pray stupidity in PA seen is probably due to the stupidly short season that puts inordinately high pressure on people to "score" within the artificially narrow opportunity they have?

[FJagr]

This debate sounds so much like the debate leading up to the legalization of crossbows and has as much inaccuracy and dis-information.

This shouldn't even be a debate because if the anti-crossbow guys were right, there aren't any deer left to hunt because now the woods are full of gun hunters that can now fling bolts too and fro slaughtering everything is sight...oh, wait, that didn't happen...

Banning semi-auto firearms from hunting is antiquated and wreaks of an elitist attitude where those that choose not to permit semi's somehow feel their chosen tool afield is more "honorable". It is absolutely absurd to think that with my Model 94, or 700, or A-Bolt I'm a solid hunter possessing morals and etiquette but the moment I put an AR-15 in my hands I'm just going to rip through the woods 30 rounds at a time. That is close minded, backwards thinking. I have hunted, in other states, with my AR's and have shot 5 deer with them...I killed each one with a single shot...why how can that be you may ask, I had a 20 or 30 rd magazine in the weapon...I must have had the urge to do a mag dump on at least one of them...ridiculous thinking...

Any arguement you have against a semi-auto you should apply to yourself if you use anything other than a loin cloth and bare hands. I ask you, why is your chosen "advantage" (repeating rifle over single shot, compound over longbow, longbow over spear, etc...) any safer or more "honorable" than a hunter that uses a semi-auto.

The argued "less safe" aspects of using semi's is simply unfounded. If they were true, there would be no hunters left in other states where semi are allowed (which I believe is every single one other than PA but I may be missing a one).

The ridiculous "it'll increase poaching" arguement is as equally retarded. They're already breaking the law. Do you honestly believe that a guy sits at home and says, "I sure wish they'd legalize semi's so I can poach, but until they do, I guess I'll just hunt legally"...

A semi is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. No matter which tool you use, unless you are hunting bare handed, you have chosen a tool that gives you an advantage.

As hunters we need to stick together and support other hunters, not argue about what we shouldn't be allowed to use. A jackass in the woods is a jackass because of who he is and how he was raised, not because of the weapon he chooses to hunt with.

<<stepping off soap box>>

FJagr