PA Homeowner, but NJ Resident, LTCF and transport

[oblivionboyj]

I read the thread, thank you. I read that he is the mayor of his town in NJ. Irrespective of his ownership interest in a business, if he spends all his time being mayor and doesn't take an active role in running the business, I would not consider it certain that the company qualifies as his "place of business" under the statute, because that ain't where he works. I own a few shares of AT&T stock, but I don't work there and nobody would claim that it's my "place of business."

And if he is a part time mayor with a full time business (the norm for smaller municipalities) he is the owner and operator.
Mayors do not generally become full time positions until you get into some relitively larger towns.

Either way, he is the owner and operator of his business.
He doesn't have to do it full time, so long as he is an operating partner.
There is no full time test required to determine if you are qualified to call yourself an owner operator.
And being an operating partner is nothing like having stock in ATT, even if it is only a part time gig.

[Greywolf]

And if he is a part time mayor with a full time business (the norm for smaller municipalities) he is the owner and operator.
Mayors do not generally become full time positions until you get into some relitively larger towns.

Either way, he is the owner and operator of his business.
He doesn't have to do it full time, so long as he is an operating partner.
There is no full time test required to determine if you are qualified to call yourself an owner operator.
And being an operating partner is nothing like having stock in ATT, even if it is only a part time gig.

I dunno.

Both my brother and I live in small towns (both under 10,000 population. Both towns have full-time mayors.

You may be correct, but it has not been made clear by the original poster.

[oblivionboyj]

I dunno.

Both my brother and I live in small towns (both under 10,000 population. Both towns have full-time mayors.

You may be correct, but it has not been made clear by the original poster.

I don't know either, but when the OP says he is

the CEO of the company and have a substantial ownership interest

I can only assume that the CEO has some duties that would qualify him as the operator

[PA Traveler]

FOPA would have protected Revell if he were passing through the second state. Unfortunately his flight got cancelled and the airline put him up in a hotel overnight. He took his baggage with him, which included his correctly checked and stored firearm.

The next day when he returned to the airport and once again declared his firearm as required to check it for transport, now he's in New Jersey... in posession of a firearm... for which he has neither a Firearm Owners ID Card nor documentation that he legally purchased it.

Boom- he's charged with illegal possession of a handgun.

Gotta love New Jersey.

[tl_3237]

Revell is a very poor case to cite, because he was arrested in the intervening state, which is the state you are saying is the only one the FOPA would apply to.

The FOPA was written and enacted to allow for interstate transportation of firearms. What good is a law that allows you to transport in any states between where you start and where you finish, but not in the states at either end of the trip?

The FOPA says what it says. If there is case law that says it does NOT apply to the starting or destination state, please provide a citation. I don't think such rulings exist.

Revell was arrested in his state of origin (NJ). If you look further he broke the 926A transportation mode when he took possession of his firearms in NJ - hence his initial trip was UT -> NJ and his 2nd trip was NJ->PA. Had he not taken possession he would have been 926A protected as NJ would have been an intervening state in a UT->PA trip. By taking them out of the 926A transport mode he lost FOPA protection at that time and he would have to requalify for FOPA on his resumption the next day under NJ law.

If you read my post you will see that I indicated that Revell was not on-point but its the closest we have to a judicial dicta on the subject. There are similar rulings from US District Court (NJ) and 2nd Circuit as well as SCONY.

In the plethora of threads that I posted to on this issue you will find that I never said it was conclusive - quite the contrary.

However if you take the time to read the thread I linked previously you will find FOPA contemporary references as well as some Congressional Record excerpts that all point to 926A not overriding the laws at the state of origin.

Certainly, it will take an on-point case to establish the scope of FOPA transport protection but, until then, I remain adamant that the issue is far from resolved and continue to exhort caution. It would be disengenious not to point out to anyone contemplating claiming FOPA protection in their state of origin that there are potential legal consequences - they alone must assess how much risk they are willing to take and proceed at their delight or peril (as the case may be).

[tl_3237]

I want to thank all of you for your responses. You guys are great. I am the CEO of the company and have a substantial ownership interest, so it is considered "my" business. I wasn't aware that I could purchase a gun in PA without being a full time resident.

As I understand the responses, if I do that, I would have the same privileges as I currently have in NJ (transport from residence to business or target range, locked in trunk and unloaded). I may do that for now.

Is the general opinion that the dual residency definition would still not permit me to get a carry permit in PA?

I just downloaded the Florida carry permit application and it seems pretty straightforward (I also have a place in FL). As I understand that, the Florida carry permit would be accepted in PA. That may be the easiest answer to my issues. Went to my local range today to get the NRA Class Certification for the FL permit.

All I can say is what a mess this stuff is. The criminals have it much easier since they just don't care.

Three points:

1. If you buy the firearm in Pa and keep it at your Pa residence or Pa business you should be good. However, as I indicated in my last post to you, I would not advise that you take that firearm to your NJ residence. Doing so would probably be a violation of 18 USC 922(a)(3)

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

2. the dual-residency definition previously provided ONLY affects Federal Firearm Laws/Regulations. It has no bearing on a state's interpretation of residency for such things as 'licensing'. I have never seen a definition for Pa's LTCF residency nor am aware of any case law on the matter. Your situation does raise an interesting question that you might want to inquire about.

3. some people here seem to prefer AZ licenses over FL. Both are reciprocated in Pa.

[press1280]

If travelling directly between residence and an established range both NJ and Pa provide exceptions to their possession/transport proscriptions - no need to involve FOPA.

There is a compelling argument that FOPA transport protection is not invokable for travel when the origin and destination is in contiguous states, ie it only applies to travel THROUGH intervening states.

FOPA doesn't apply in this situation. It's an odd situation where you can transport from business to dwelling and vise versa, but not from dwelling to dwelling. There is an exception for hunting/fishing or target shooting. You do target shoot/hunt/fish at your PA property, RIGHT If so then legally you're covered IMO, but IANAL.

[jashev]

I don't know either, but when the OP says he is I can only assume that the CEO has some duties that would qualify him as the operator

Sorry I didn't get back on sooner, guys. I am a part-time Mayor. I work as CEO for my company on a full time basis. We have two sales offices/warehouses. One in Marlton, NJ, one in Malvern, PA. I generally split my week working between the two offices. When I am working at the Malvern office, I stay at my house in Wrightsville, PA. As CEO I manage all of the day to day operations of the company.

In NJ, I can transport (locked in trunk, unloaded) to my office. I then often go from my office to a pistol range, then from the range back to my home. All in NJ, all between either my residence, business or range.

I assume that the same rules would be in effect in PA as I go between my business in Malvern and my home in Wrightsville or to a PA range.

Thanks again for all the great information.

[tl_3237]

Sorry I didn't get back on sooner, guys. I am a part-time Mayor. I work as CEO for my company on a full time basis. We have two sales offices/warehouses. One in Marlton, NJ, one in Malvern, PA. I generally split my week working between the two offices. When I am working at the Malvern office, I stay at my house in Wrightsville, PA. As CEO I manage all of the day to day operations of the company.

In NJ, I can transport (locked in trunk, unloaded) to my office. I then often go from my office to a pistol range, then from the range back to my home. All in NJ, all between either my residence, business or range.

I assume that the same rules would be in effect in PA as I go between my business in Malvern and my home in Wrightsville or to a PA range.

Thanks again for all the great information.

You would be well served to re-read the NJS 2C:39-6e that I previously posted as well as 18 Pa CSA 6106(here) with emphasis on (b)(4), (8), (11), and (15).In addition re-read 18 USC 922(a)(3) previously posted.

Your scenario has many ramifications/gray-areas that have potential solutions/risks but I'm uneasy that you are not comprehending that they all involve restrictions - the last thing I would want to see is you 'jacked-up' over a misunderstanding.

With the below questions answered we can narrow down the permutations.

-------------------------------------

Are you buying the firearm in Pa as a Pa resident (dual-residency discussed earlier) and keeping it at your Pa residence/Pa business or are you transporting it from/to NJ?

Are you assuming that you will have a carry license from any other state or not?

[jashev]

With the below questions answered we can narrow down the permutations.

-------------------------------------

Are you buying the firearm in Pa as a Pa resident (dual-residency discussed earlier) and keeping it at your Pa residence/Pa business or are you transporting it from/to NJ?

Are you assuming that you will have a carry license from any other state or not?

In answer to the first part, yes I would like to go ahead and purchase a firearm in PA. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the dual residency issue however.

Without that, if I leave my home in NJ and drive to my office in Malvern, PA with my weapon unloaded and locked in the trunk of my car is that allowable in PA? If I then leave Malvern and drive to my house in Wrightsville, PA, is that legal? I'm much more concerned with the PA ramifications than NJ (being a Mayor has some small privileges since technically the local PD report to me).

On the second question, I have requested a carry permit application from Virginia. That would appear to be the easiest way to solve any PA problems since the two states have reciprocity.