nfa and moving question.

**oblivionboyj** · June 26th, 2011, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by ungawa

Good luck with that.

Some of the states shown as OK are OK in theory but No Way in practice. Such as FA in NJ. I don't know for sure, but I don't think there are any remaining civilians with FA in NJ except dealers. Cops can still get it done, though.

I am sure that it is a bitch to get an LEO signature for an NFA weapon in CA, or NJ.
There are other ways to go about it though.
When I was asking questions about the LEO signature here on PAFOA I found out about going the trust route for NFA firearms and devices.
If you go that route there is no LEO signature required.
At that point the ATF only looks at state law as it is written to determine if it will issue the tax stamp.
I met a guy at my club not too long ago from MD who had a suppressor.
He said he did it under a trust and it was no problem.
No LEO signature required.

I am sure that most of the people in CA and NJ do not even bother with the LEO signature and start a trust to get NFA items.

**ungawa** · June 26th, 2011, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by oblivionboyj

I am sure that it is a bitch to get an LEO signature for an NFA weapon in CA, or NJ.
There are other ways to go about it though.
When I was asking questions about the LEO signature here on PAFOA I found out about going the trust route for NFA firearms and devices.
If you go that route there is no LEO signature required.
At that point the ATF only looks at state law as it is written to determine if it will issue the tax stamp.
I met a guy at my club not too long ago from MD who had a suppressor.
He said he did it under a trust and it was no problem.
No LEO signature required.

I am sure that most of the people in CA and NJ do not even bother with the LEO signature and start a trust to get NFA items.

Dude, people in NJ and CA do NOT own full auto firearms.

The problem is not LEO signoff. The problem is the STATE laws in those states. In NJ, for instance, you need a state license for full auto. You need to prove that the weapon is needed to protect the public or some crap. And, you need to have an NJ permit to carry a handgun before you can even apply for a FA license. And you know how easy those are to get.

Many states that theoretically allow certain NFA items have laws well over and above the simple federal requirements. In some cases, making NFA ownership impossible for ordinary people.

**oblivionboyj** · June 26th, 2011, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by ungawa

Dude, people in NJ and CA do NOT own full auto firearms.

The problem is not LEO signoff. The problem is the STATE laws in those states. In NJ, for instance, you need a state license for full auto. You need to prove that the weapon is needed to protect the public or some crap. And, you need to have an NJ permit to carry a handgun before you can even apply for a FA license. And you know how easy those are to get.

Many states that theoretically allow certain NFA items have laws well over and above the simple federal requirements. In some cases, making NFA ownership impossible for ordinary people.

I must admit I am not familiar enough with NJ law to argue with you on that.

For all that CA has some really bad laws, there are 2 separate California's in function and effect when it comes to carry licenses.
The inland areas are not like coastal CA at all in that respect.
But that is not true with NFA firearms.
All you need in CA to get a FA, AOW, or SBR/SBS is a tax stamp.
The ATF will not ask for any state issued authorization for the stamp, because CA law does not call for one.
You just can't have a suppressor.

There is also a major difference between the way CA issues carry licenses from NJ.
You don't need a reason, like you do in NJ.
You just need an LEO sign off from your county sheriff.
Many of the inland sheriffs WILL sign off on licenses for more or less anybody.
My dad lives in San Diego and he has a CA carry license.
Now he knows the San Diego sheriff, and I realize that gave him an advantage.
The point is that not all the sheriffs are more restrictive, and there is nothing in law that requires them to be.
It is just that the coastal sheriffs generally will not issue licenses because they don't want to for political reasons, and there is nothing in the state's laws that says they have to issue licenses.

The bottom line is that if you have the money for an FA, and start a trust to avoid the LEO signature, there is nothing stopping a CA resident from getting a NFA firearm.
There are plenty of collectors of NFA firearms in CA, and the majority of them live in coastal CA.
Like NFA collectors everyplace they tend to be rather wealthy, but again, that is a different discussion.

**ungawa** · June 26th, 2011, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by oblivionboyj

I must admit I am not familiar enough with NJ law to argue with you on that.

For all that CA has some really bad laws, there are 2 separate California's in function and effect when it comes to carry licenses.
The inland areas are not like coastal CA at all in that respect.
But that is not true with NFA firearms.
All you need in CA to get a FA, AOW, or SBR/SBS is a tax stamp.
The ATF will not ask for any state issued authorization for the stamp, because CA law does not call for one.
You just can't have a suppressor.

There is also a major difference between the way CA issues carry licenses from NJ.
You don't need a reason, like you do in NJ.
You just need an LEO sign off from your county sheriff.
Many of the inland sheriffs WILL sign off on licenses for more or less anybody.
My dad lives in San Diego and he has a CA carry license.
Now he knows the San Diego sheriff, and I realize that gave him an advantage.
The point is that not all the sheriffs are more restrictive, and there is nothing in law that requires them to be.
It is just that the coastal sheriffs generally will not issue licenses because they don't want to for political reasons, and there is nothing in the state's laws that says they have to issue licenses.

The bottom line is that if you have the money for an FA, and start a trust to avoid the LEO signature, there is nothing stopping a CA resident from getting a NFA firearm.
There are plenty of collectors of NFA firearms in CA, and the majority of them live in coastal CA.
Like NFA collectors everyplace they tend to be rather wealthy, but again, that is a different discussion.

I was fully aware of the situation regarding carry in CA, I never said otherwise. However, I heard the exact opposite regarding FA. I am in the same position regarding that information for CA as you are for NJ. You can damn well take my word for it on NJ and I will have to take yours for it on CA

EDIT:

The bottom line is that if you have the money for an FA, and start a trust to avoid the LEO signature, there is nothing stopping a CA resident from getting a NFA firearm.

I don't know, man, it looks like Calguns doesn't know it's that easy to get FA and they certainly know about NFA trusts:

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=109642
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=82693

And this guy says you DO need to show cause and get a state permit for FA in California:

http://californianfatrust.com/califo...s-and-the-law/

I don't have a horse in this race because I'm not moving to either CA or NJ, but my guess is you are wrong about FA in both states.

Which brings me back to my original point. Just because certain NFA are shown as legal on those maps does not mean they are legal from a practical standpoint. Several states have hypothetical routes to ownership for NFA but make it very difficult, or do not permit it at all, in practice.

**dieselgeek** · June 26th, 2011, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Toxicodendron11

A little blurry but helpful none the less.

Why is Kansas marked on these
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/ma...wing-silencer/

**Suburban** · June 26th, 2011, 06:15 PM

Oh, hey, that reminds me.

Did anyone get a reply when you notified the NFA Branch that you were moving?

I expected to get a letter or something, but I never heard anything back.

EDIT: Oh, it was not an interstate move. I didn't even change counties.

**dunsho** · July 9th, 2011, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by knight0334

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Yes. You could leave it in a storage locker, vacation home, with friends, or with family. When with another person, it must be kept locked up, and you should put a copy of the canceled stamp with the NFA device. The person storing the NFA device cannot have the combo or key to the item. ...they cannot have control or custody.

Must it also be kept locked up even in your house?