"Kitchen Table" FFL

[coyote9570]

I've been pondering the question wether or not to get my FFl. I wanted a "kitchen table" ffl but i'm seeing that it is very hard to acquire. I was wondering if anyone on here was able to recieve there's and how much red tape they had to go through. My other question is ,,, Is there any other way i can own a full auto or a longer barrel for my keltec plr-16. This may sound dumb questions but i cant find answers any where else

[ar15jules]

Full auto yes. Go into the NFA section of the board. How much cash do you have? You are looking at easy $10,000 plus for an M16 style rifle.

Longer bbl for your AR, you can mail order one from MidwayUSA or various other places. What were you thinking of getting?

Jules

[knight0334]

kitchen table FFL? for collecting? good luck with that... lol FFL's are for business purposes. Dedicate a room or garage for the business, get the proper business license, state FFL from sheriff and federal FFL, also you will need to setup with St. Police to do Insta-Checks and also to pay them. You will need to do business with that license otherwise the ATF may find your usage of the FFL for personal gain and strip you of it + charge you with making false statements or some sort of bullcrap like that.

MG's = as mentioned above, be prepared to spend at minimum $10K for a legal pre-86 firearm. No MG's made after 86 are transferable to us common folks - only LEOs and military.

You can get any length of barrel for your AR(rifle receiver) that is over 16" via mail/postal/internet. Also less than 16" if you own a pistol receiver.

Dont possess a <16" barrel without owning an AR "Pistol" receiver = construction possession of a Short Barreled Rifle = Need SBR tax stamp = without tax stamp = 10years in prison + fines = bad bad bad thing.

[Pa. Patriot]

Yep, business purposes only for a 01FFL.
WHen the ATF inspector did my initial inspection he said that for every 10-20 inspections he does they issue one FFL. People are still under the impression thatyou can get an 01 dealer FFL without a business. Those days are longgggg gone.

I have heard of some rural areas where the local ATF field office is more lax, but that is rare.

At a minimum you will need to have to be zoned/re-zoned commercial or have appropriate variance, tax number, PA license to sell firearms and then either a legitimate gunsmithing workshop or a storefront for your retail gun shop.

[coyote9570]

I really appreciate everyones input Thank You

[The Drew]

BTW noone has addressed this directly... An 01 FFL is a license to deal in firearms. This in no way gives you any special privledges in regards to NFA weapons, nor does it give you "national" carry privledges, which i've heard from some know it alls around gun ranges say...

[Xringshooter]

The BATFE discourages home based firearms business but they won't necessarily reject the application out of hand. They would like to see a store front business, but not having one is not necessarily a rejection reason. If you have everything in order; permission from the local government (zoning and such), state license, business license, sales tax number, dedicated area (room, garage, out building, etc. separate from the living quarters), regular hours that you are open and that the general public can walk in (if gunsmithing business it's a little different for the hours open) and can prove that it is not just to buy guns for yourself then they are kinda hard pressed to deny the application. That's not to say they couldn't.

That said, if they grant the license they have the right to inspect your books AT ANY TIME. Now, in my experience only mind you, anytime they wanted to look at my books, they have called and set up an appointment (same experience with the local and state police) to look things over. If they have suspicions I suppose they will come unannounced.

The last time I had an inspection I asked the agent what they can do. This agent was very courteous, told me exactly what he was going to do and in what order he wanted to see things. Asked some general questions (how do I separate my personal guns from business guns, how do I log the guns in for repair, basically how I ran my business). He told me that they can only come into your house and inspect your business. He also said however, if there was something unlawful in your house that they noticed when going to where you operate the business, they can report it to the locals (search warrant coming) or if under their jurisdiction they could act on it immediately (similar to a policeman walking up to your car and seeing, by casual observation something illegal in your car, they don't need a warrant).

Anytime I have had to deal with the BATFE (again this is my experience) whether on the phone or face to face, they have been very easy to work with and I have never been given anything other than solid info. I have even had an agent call me back after doing some research on a question I asked and he could not answer immediately.

Hope this helps.

[ReefBlue]

This is from another forum I go to:

Originally posted by jsanderson
what does it take to get a class 3 license? I want to be able to convert my Ar15 into a 3 round burst/fully auto. just for the hell of it cause I will never sell that gun, maybe even have it put into the ground with me.

You are talking an NFA manufacturing license.

First, you need to apply for your Type 07 FFL, manufacturer of firearms.

You will need to contact the ATF and request an ATF form 7 application packet.

Just a quick heads up, if you are not engaged in a business where such a license would be necessary in the ocurse of your business or do not have the means of establishing a "storefront" firearms business, your application will not be approved.

Okay, you have submitted your multiple copies of the application with appropriate fees (Type 07 FFL is $150 for 3 years), fingerprint cards, photographs, and your field interview with an ATF agent that has visited and verified your "storefront" is both real and of an appropriate nature to be a place to reasonably secure firearms in and you finally get your license in the mail.

This process, if it is your initial license application, can easily take up to 6 months.

Alright, you are now a licensed firearms manufacturer. Thi smakes you legal to manufacture or otherwise modify firearms that ar ein full compliance with all applicable federal (including NFA) and local firearm laws.

However, you want to manufacture NFA weapons.

You will need to go here:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms

And fill out ATF F 5630.7, Special Tax Registration and Return - National Firearms Act (NFA) and submit it with all appropriate fees. Class 2 Manufacturer annual "taxes" are either $500 or $1000 depending on your business volume.

Now you get to wait some more. My Class 3 dealer's license took 4 months to come back in. My Class 2 Man license is going on 2 months.

Now, here's the rub on the NFA licensing.

If you are strictly a manufacturer, you can manufacture and/or modify basically anything that fires a .500 caliber bullet. You want to build yourself a 7.62 mini gun? You are iicensed to do so and it will be 100% legal to own provided you fill out the appropriate form related to the manufacture of a firearm, ATF F 5320.1

Sound good? Just wait...

You are now "married" to that firearm.

The firearm can be sold if you get bored with it, but because it was manufactured after the NFA cut off date of 1986, it can only be sold to a law enforcement or other "approved" government agency through a Class 3 firearms dealer.

As a result of now being married to this firearm without any realistic prospect of selling it, you now have your annual Special Occupation Tax, either $500 or $1000, that must be paid every year, on time, for being married to that weapon.

Keep in mind, the SOT is a one time annual tax. If you built 25 7.62 miniguns, your annual SOT would be the same rate as building one and having it in your inventory.

If something happens and you miss your SOT payment deadline and you are in possession of an NFA firearm(s), you are 100% absolutely and totally fucked. Each NFA violation carries up to 10 years and a $10,000 fine which is cumulative per violation. The 25 NFA miniguns could cost you 250 years in prison and 2.5 million in fines if you fuck up.

A gun dealer in St Louis was popped with 7 NFA violations related to illegally modifying and having the parts to illegally modify AR-15 rifles. IIRC, it was $25k in fines and 17 years in prison. Plus, the loss of all his firearms, his livelihood, and multiple federal firearm violations on his criminal record.

If you want to "divorce" your firearm, you can either line up a sale (before your SOT payment date) or surrender the NFA firearms to the ATF.


Any other questions?