Question about something I read in my local paper RE: polling places

[jmarshall]

From a letter to the editor from the constable coordinator in the county: "The state bureau of elections issued an advisory on Sept. 15, 2010 to county election boards of their right to ban firearms at the polls by resolution."

1. Is this true?

2. Is this not a blatant violation of the preemption section of the UFA?

[gooseSA40]

1. Is this true?

It was never legally true. It was thought to be true. Attached is the updated letter from October 29th, 2010. I couldn't find the other thread on the topic, but I'm sure someone will shortly.

[jmarshall]

It was never legally true. It was thought to be true. Attached is the updated letter from October 29th, 2010. I couldn't find the other thread on the topic, but I'm sure someone will shortly.

Thanks, I believe I will write the editor myself later tody

[MDJschool]

I think now is as good as a time as ever to remind you about the doctrine of unconstitutional conditions and the use of schools and places near schools as polling places. I don't know why anyone thinks resolutions would provide some sort of force for controlling polling places, as a manner of difference from ordinances, since it would in nearly every case violate both preemption provisions (6120 and 53 Pa.C.S. 2962(g)). Of course, Philly avoids the latter preemption and schools avoid the former.

Why should anyone have to trade their right to bear arms for their right to vote? How disgusting! And yet:

25 P.S. 2727(a): "(a) In selecting polling places, the county board of elections shall, wherever possible and practicable, select schoolhouses, municipal buildings or rooms, or other public buildings for that purpose. Any board of public education or school directors, or county or the municipal authorities shall, upon request of the county board, make arrangements for the use of school property, or of county or municipal property for polling places. In selecting polling places, the county board of elections shall make every effort to select polling places that provide all electors with an environment that is free from intimidation and violence. . . .
. . ."
Consider all school property, and 1000ft from it suspect. Include in your concerns county property that may contain a 'court facility'.

Make note of prohibitions:
25 P.S. § 2729.1:
"No election shall be held in any of the following:
(1) A private residence not situated within the boundaries of the election district.
(2) A private residence of an elected or appointed party official.
(3) A private residence that is not otherwise prohibited under paragraphs (1), (2), (6) and (7), unless the county board of elections certifies in writing and at a public hearing that:
(i) the polling place located within the private residence is accessible to persons with disabilities; and
(ii) the private residence is a location free of intimidation and harassment.
(4) An abandoned building.
(5) A vacant lot.
(6) An office, building or private residence of a candidate for political office.
(7) An office, building or private residence of an elected official.
(8) A building utilized by a ward or political party as headquarters."

and allowances:
25 P.S. § 2728
"If, in any election district, no proper polling place can be obtained, the county board of elections shall cause to be constructed for such district, a temporary room of adequate size to be used as a polling place."

And get ready to petition and/or sue:
25 P.S. § 2726
"(a) The county board of elections shall select and fix the polling place within each new election district and may, at any time, for any reason that may seem proper to it, either on its own motion or on petition of ten qualified registered electors of an election district, change the polling place within any election district. Except in case of an emergency or unavoidable event occurring within twenty days of a primary or election, which renders any polling place unavailable for use at such primary or election, the county board shall not change any polling place until at least five days after notice of the proposed change shall have been posted on the existing polling place and in the immediate vicinity thereof, and until at least five days after written notice of the proposed change shall have been given to the occupant or owner of said polling place, or their agent.
(b) Except in case of emergency or unavoidable event, occurring within twenty days of a primary or election, which renders any polling place unavailable for use, if a petition be presented to the county board on or before the day set for hearing of the petition for change of polling place, signed by a majority of the registered electors of the district, objecting to the proposed change, said change shall not be ordered.
(c) The county board of elections shall publicly announce, not less than twenty days prior to the primary election, special election, municipal election or general election, by posting at its office in a conspicuous place, a list of the places at which the election is to be held in the various election districts of the county. The list shall be available for public inspection at the office of the county board of elections."

[cock&lock]

[quote=MDJschool;1584346[B]]I think now is as good as a time as ever to remind you about the doctrine of unconstitutional conditions and the use of schools and places near schools as polling places.[/b]

It would be unconstitutional, only if, you make the false assumption that firearms are uniformly prohibited. Why do you make that assumption?

[9orangeletters]

I think now is as good as a time as ever to remind you about the doctrine of unconstitutional conditions and the use of schools and places near schools as polling places.

It would be unconstitutional, only if, you make the false assumption that firearms are uniformly prohibited. Why do you make that assumption?

I think what he means to say is that having a polling place in a school makes us unable to carry our firearms to within 100 feet of our polling place, because it's a school.

So if all polling places are in schools, then NOBODY can carry in a polling place.

[cock&lock]

I think what he means to say is that having a polling place in a school makes us unable to carry our firearms to within 100 feet of our polling place, because it's a school.

So if all polling places are in schools, then NOBODY can carry in a polling place.

I know what he means. I completely disagree.

[TaePo]

There is the "other lawful purposes" possibility for school carry or...

Is a school still a school when it is not being used as a school?

For example, sometimes schools rent out their facilities for gymnastic competitions as an example. Is it still a school or are the rented facilities whatever the rentors make it to be (competition)?

[9orangeletters]

There is the "other lawful purposes" possibility for school carry or...

Is a school still a school when it is not being used as a school?

For example, sometimes schools rent out their facilities for gymnastic competitions as an example. Is it still a school or are the rented facilities whatever the rentors make it to be (competition)?

First off, IANAL, so take this for what it's worth from a private citizen.

The list of prohibited places says schools. It doesn't say "Schools when being used as a school" or "Schools exempted when being used for another purpose". I have a feeling that if you take a firearm into an abandoned school or even a repurposed school (such as a school converted to offices for the school district) and get caught, you're going to be charged with carrying in a prohibited place, or whatever the name of that particular charge.

Ergo, I think there's a few things that would have to be proven. 1) What defines a building as a "school", 2) Does the "school" need to be actively in session, or even actively a "school", and 3) is the building you're in an active school, as previously defined.

[TaePo]

First off, IANAL, so take this for what it's worth from a private citizen.

The list of prohibited places says schools. It doesn't say "Schools when being used as a school" or "Schools exempted when being used for another purpose". I have a feeling that if you take a firearm into an abandoned school or even a repurposed school (such as a school converted to offices for the school district) and get caught, you're going to be charged with carrying in a prohibited place, or whatever the name of that particular charge.

Ergo, I think there's a few things that would have to be proven. 1) What defines a building as a "school", 2) Does the "school" need to be actively in session, or even actively a "school", and 3) is the building you're in an active school, as previously defined.

You are very correct on your assumption of being arrested. The arrest is what is needed to drag you into court and resolve the issue. But most people do not want to be a test case. And the probability of arrest will probably become a certainty if it takes place in Philadelphia for example or in some rural county you may just be warned as a matter of courtesy.

I brought those issues up as possible questionable definitions in the statutes that we need answered so someone doesn't have to be a test case to find out.

IANAL either but I believe if I rent out my house to someone who will use it as a bed and breakfast, it is no longer being used as a house and is no longer under my immediate control. I still own the house and property but someone has temporarily paid for the priviledge of using it for a short term (assuming such usage is allowed by code). If this theory would hold true then the only thing a school could do is not rent out their spaces to others if they wish to remain designated a school at all times.

I think it would be interesting to get a lawyers take on rental agreements et al and property uses.