Allegheny County- thought I'd share.

[Jared McLaughlin]

People have different opinions on the subject of open carry. I started because it was annoying trying to conceal a full size pistol in the summer months, and didn't seem to be worth the effort if open carry was legal anyway.

The general affect in the past six months or so has been extremely minimal. Occasionally people glance, nobody ever questions. One time a guy rounded up his kids and ran out of the gas station. One time someone at the range told me it wasn't legal.

Tonight was the most interesting to me, from a percieved hassle perspective. I have a pretty set routine that I don't vary from much, which doesn't include very crowded places. Tonight I went to the mall to do some shopping. For those of you in the area, I was at Century III. I'm not even sure anyone noticed at all. I've walked by LEO's a few times, and they didn't even seem to notice. I wonder if they just knew the law and weren't concerned.

Basically, I'm starting to feel as if all these concerns about open carry are exagerated. I definitely think it's worthwhile just for the comfort factor. I don't think I'd like to live anywhere it's not legal, really. There's something that's a bit nice about what I do every day, as naturally as carrying a wallet, not being something I feel concerned about people noticing.

I've rambled on because I'm tired. To the point, I really thought a mall, with it's security people, might ask me to leave. Now I'm tempted to treat the mall to my money just a little more often.

[Philadelphia]

People have different opinions on the subject of open carry. I started because it was annoying trying to conceal a full size pistol in the summer months, and didn't seem to be worth the effort if open carry was legal anyway.

The general affect in the past six months or so has been extremely minimal. Occasionally people glance, nobody ever questions. One time a guy rounded up his kids and ran out of the gas station. One time someone at the range told me it wasn't legal.

Tonight was the most interesting to me, from a percieved hassle perspective. I have a pretty set routine that I don't vary from much, which doesn't include very crowded places. Tonight I went to the mall to do some shopping. For those of you in the area, I was at Century III. I'm not even sure anyone noticed at all. I've walked by LEO's a few times, and they didn't even seem to notice. I wonder if they just knew the law and weren't concerned.

Basically, I'm starting to feel as if all these concerns about open carry are exagerated. I definitely think it's worthwhile just for the comfort factor. I don't think I'd like to live anywhere it's not legal, really. There's something that's a bit nice about what I do every day, as naturally as carrying a wallet, not being something I feel concerned about people noticing.

I've rambled on because I'm tired. To the point, I really thought a mall, with it's security people, might ask me to leave. Now I'm tempted to treat the mall to my money just a little more often.

Sounds good and you live in an "enlightened" area. Lawful guns, good. Unlawful guns, bad. When all the sheeple get that straight, they will be much happier. If someone is OC a pistol in a holster at the mall, I will bet a thousand $ to all takers that it's a legal gun.

My opinion at this point (still sort of trying to figure out OC and how to get the sheeple not to panic at the mere sight of a holstered gun) is use a professional looking holster (I always have leather with a thumb break), make sure you are reasonably well dressed, hair cut, shaved within the past couple of days, clean, etc., and people will not view you so much as a danger with a gun. Maybe they think (or want to believe in their own little frightened minds) you are a security guard somewhere or somesuch -- as long as they don't view you as a danger with a gun, you are OK.

The foregoing is all theoretical as I live in philly. Try to OC there and away you go for disorderly. To be fair, the sheeple in philly are so panicey that you could seriously start a stampede by OC in some places. As a realist, I don't see that ever changing. I try to always follow the above though so when (not if) I print or the shirt hikes up enough for people to see the but of the gun, they think "geek with giant pager" or whatever rationalizations work in their little minds to keep from freaking out.

[LittleRedToyota]

Lawful guns, good. Unlawful guns, bad.

this isn't directed at you philly, but i think it is something we all, as pro-gun people, need to start trying to do.

there is no such thing as an "unlawful gun". there are lawfully *possessed* guns and unlawfully *possessed* guns. the possessed part is very important...it puts the focus on the person possessing the gun instead of on the gun.

i think we all should make a point of always using phraseology that correctly puts the focus on the criminal rather than the tool.

the anti-gunners are very good at framing the issue to make it look like the problem is guns themselves rather than the illegal possession and use of guns. we need to frame the issues correctly.

in the political world today, it is often the side that succeeds in framing the issue...and defining the terms...their way that wins. it is unfortunate, but being right or wrong is not as much of a factor in turning public opinion as framing. the antis know this and intentionally use it to their advantage by talking about "illegal guns", "assault weapons", etc.

if you look around the internet, you will find quotes and memos from big players in the anti-gun movement specifically outlining how they try to use framing to sway public opinion.

we need to counter that by doing everything we can to frame the issues correctly (i.e., as a criminal problem, not a gun problem). it prolly doesn't matter much what we say here on this forum, but if we can get ourselves into the habit of correctly framing the issues here, then we will also do so when we talk to other people, write our representatives, write the media, etc.

in fact, i think instead of calling myself pro-gun, i'm going to start calling myself pro-self-defense.

[Jared McLaughlin]

If someone is OC a pistol in a holster at the mall, I will bet a thousand $ to all takers that it's a legal gun.

I think you bring up some good points. I would think most people upon seeing a holstered firearm in the open would make the same assumption that you do, that the firearm is legally carried, otherwise the actor would not be so open about it. I think that dressing well and being clean cut, while it shouldn't matter, probably does.

[Jared McLaughlin]

there is no such thing as an "unlawful gun". there are lawfully *possessed* guns and unlawfully *possessed* guns. the possessed part is very important...it puts the focus on the person possessing the gun instead of on the gun.

we need to counter that by doing everything we can to frame the issues correctly (i.e., as a criminal problem, not a gun problem). it prolly doesn't matter much what we say here on this forum, but if we can get ourselves into the habit of correctly framing the issues here, then we will also do so when we talk to other people, write our representatives, write the media, etc.

I definitely think you have some good comments here. If I remember correctly, in PA the statute for illegal possesion is "persons not to posess firearms". I think this places the thing in the right light. The thing that I see, is that much like any behavioral change, you have to have something to replace this idea with. By this I mean, if people generally see firearms as a threatening object, you cannot just remove that idea but you must also substitute it with something else.

I know that in other times and places, citizenship had real benefits, and was a desireable status. There were certain objects or modes of dress that were the signs of citizenship. If there's going to be any sort of replacement, I'd say that's the concept to use.

[Kypt]

The foregoing is all theoretical as I live in philly. Try to OC there and away you go for disorderly.

Has anyone actually tried OC in Philly, or does everyone just assume that you will get pinched for some ridiculous crap if you try? I've been seriously considering OC downtown and have a hard time believing I'd be arrested.

I've been OCing everywhere recently and nobody even notices, and this is in the downtown Media and Chadds Ford areas (mini-Philly areas I call them). Wawa, a pizza joint, Borders bookstore, the Giant...it's the same everywhere, no trouble, nobody throws their hands in the air and runs around screaming.

Maybe we should have our first PAFOA OC dinner party in a trendy place in downtown Philly.

[Tokamak]

I live in allegheny county and appreciate your story.

I usually go concealed and have often wondered what the effect of open carry in this county would be.

I once had my gun accidently show at a store when my coat was open and I put my arm up on the back of seat. I realized that I was showing when I saw a number of people looking at me. I smiled, lowered my arm to cover my gun and no one said a word or called the police, etc. I was worried that one of the clerks might think I was going to rob them and panic but no one did.

[Pa. Patriot]

Basically, I'm starting to feel as if all these concerns about open carry are exagerated.

I had started my OC journal thread
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...kes-barre.html
For the same exact reason. After having OC'd on and off on occasion since moving to PA in 94 I was disappointed to see so much negativity towards it. I always thought it was just a sensible alternative. For numerous reasons I decided to OC most of the time and keep a journal to show how normal it can be and had been to me thus far.

I definitely think it's worthwhile just for the comfort factor. I don't think I'd like to live anywhere it's not legal, really. There's something that's a bit nice about what I do every day, as naturally as carrying a wallet, not being something I feel concerned about people noticing.

Yeah, me too. It would be hard to stop doing now that I do it so regularly. I can wear regular clothes and don't have to shop around my rig

PS: Welcome to the site.

[pyld]

Has anyone actually tried OC in Philly, or does everyone just assume that you will get pinched for some ridiculous crap if you try? I've been seriously considering OC downtown and have a hard time believing I'd be arrested.

I personally witnessed a co-worker get harassed because he accidentally flashed his carry weapon (coming out of a secure facility where he basically 1. got gun back and then 2. shown the door). The cop let him know that had he not had a "clean record" that they'd have run him in for disorderly. I stood by and quietly called the lawyer and his wife while they had him in the back of the cruiser.

As an aside, that's two guys in sportcoats and overcoats coming out of a building in PHL known to have large data operations in the financial sector--not exactly thugkillers, either in appearance or (by a few blocks, anyway) neighborhood.

With that backdrop, there is no doubt for me personally that they (PHL PD) would not only run you in for disorderly or disturbing the peace, but certainly confiscate your weapon and if you are a Philadelphia resident, probably revoke your LTCF if they witnessed you OC.

Maybe we should have our first PAFOA OC dinner party in a trendy place in downtown Philly.

I'm all for it, only because I'd specifically go out and buy a used Hi-Point C-9 and I'm not at all worried about having my LTCF revoked over it (we tend to think sane over on this end of the state once you get outside of the Allegheny County Courthouse).

As a practical matter, I don't think one could OC in PHL for any extended period of time without getting cited, arrested, and the firearm confiscated.

[rwilson452]

I don't suppose anyone knows where the cops do lunch near PDHQ?