Headed to Pittsburgh for the NRA convention, refresh me on the laws please..

[ProShooter]

I have my Pa LTCF as well as my Va and Ut permits so I'm good all around. I know about needing a LTCF in a vehicle.

Please refresh my memory about places to go/can't go while carrying.

[Truckman]

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html

From http://www.nraam.org/ down at the bottom, in yellow background.

Note: Lawfully carried firearms are permitted in the Convention Center, in the Exhibit Hall and in the CONSOL Energy Center. Heinz Field prohibits the possession of firearms. When carrying your firearm, remember to follow all federal, state and local laws.

[donm]

Stay out of schools and courthouses and you're pretty much good to go. Laws are similar to Virginia but the non-sterile part of airports and churches are OK here, and you don't have to uncover if you choose to have an adult beverage with your dinner. No "must inform officer." Just don't step across the line into Ohio -- their lengthy no-go list is very similar to North Carolina.

[ProShooter]

Simple enough....thanks!

[Franky4Fingers]

Yeah they pretty much covered it all...its all pretty straight up. Just stay out of already prohibited places, schools, post office, courthouse. Everything else is allowed, bars, open carry. Private property signs are only a warning not law. For example, if mom and pop have a sign up that says no guns allowed and your caught carrying, its not illegal. They can ask you to leave of course, but thats it. Being in the establishment does not automatically mean a violation. Unless of course its previously pohibited place by law, like previously mentioned courthouses and schools, etc.

[knight0334]

Yeah they pretty much covered it all...its all pretty straight up. Just stay out of already prohibited places, schools, post office, courthouse. Everything else is allowed, bars, open carry. Private property signs are only a warning not law. For example, if mom and pop have a sign up that says no guns allowed and your caught carrying, its not illegal. They can ask you to leave of course, but thats it. Being in the establishment does not automatically mean a violation. Unless of course its previously pohibited place by law, like previously mentioned courthouses and schools, etc.

They are law. Those signs serve as the first notice for Defiant Trespassing. You can be cited if you violate one of those signs.

[zackattack784]

Yeah they pretty much covered it all...its all pretty straight up. Just stay out of already prohibited places, schools, post office, courthouse. Everything else is allowed, bars, open carry. Private property signs are only a warning not law. For example, if mom and pop have a sign up that says no guns allowed and your caught carrying, its not illegal. They can ask you to leave of course, but thats it. Being in the establishment does not automatically mean a violation. Unless of course its previously pohibited place by law, like previously mentioned courthouses and schools, etc.

As Knight has already said, this is really really bad advice and, imo, flat out wrong. If a no guns sign is conspicuous enough that you see it before entering I wouldn't enter with a firearm.

[JohnUSCG]

They are law. Those signs serve as the first notice for Defiant Trespassing. You can be cited if you violate one of those signs.

Although it is good to obey posted signs for 'No Firearms', etc.....they DO NOT carry weight of law for first notice of Defiant Trespass. Only "No Trespassing" signs (properly posted) serve as first notice for Trespassing.

[zackattack784]

Although it is good to obey posted signs for 'No Firearms', etc.....they DO NOT carry weight of law for first notice of Defiant Trespass. Only "No Trespassing" signs (properly posted) serve as first notice for Trespassing.

This is wrong.

Read the statute:

(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;

[tl_3237]

Although it is good to obey posted signs for 'No Firearms', etc.....they DO NOT carry weight of law for first notice of Defiant Trespass. Only "No Trespassing" signs (properly posted) serve as first notice for Trespassing.

Citations?

In a previous thread we had this same discussion and I thought you we disabused from the above quoted idea:

Well...IANAL and far beit for me to chime in here....but that is wrong from everything I have ever been taught/instructed/told, etc. I have a pretty strong background in this.

Posting a 'NO GUNS' sign holds no legal weight. What if you are unable to read...what if you came in and a FAT GUY was standing in front of the sign...what if..what if...what if....etc, etc, etc.

The owner of the property has the right to say 'No Guns'. If they discover you have a gun and are asked to leave....you must do so. You do not leave, you are then trespassing. If you are asked to leave, you do so and then return in defiance of what you have been told...You are trespassing.

In order to be TRESPASSING...you must first be notifed that you are, indeed, not welcome on that property. In PA.....properly posted 'No Trespassing' signs are commonly considered to be that 'First Notification'. 'NO GUNS' signs have about as much legal consideration as 'NO CHEWING GUM' signs.

I am not advocating carrying where the owner of the property doesn't want you to. Quite the opposite...I think if someone doesn't want law abiding, gun carrying , citizens on their business property....I simply won't spend my hard earned money there. But that is just me.

it's less important what the common wisdom is, and more important what the statutes say.

The trespassing statute says that you're trespassing if you enter under false pretenses and in violation of the terms under which the property is open to the public.

In practice, if they ask you to leave and you do leave, it will almost certainly end there. And in practice, when a homeless vagrant smashes a car window in, nobody sues him for damages (but they might arrest him). In both cases, what the law allows is not necessarily the most practical plan. Costco makes no additional profit by summoning the police and having you cited for secretly bringing a gun onto the premises, and it would cost them time and some bad press. If you're willing to leave upon demand, they will waive their option of pressing charges.

But what happens most of the time doesn't define the law. The law specifically proscribes entry upon property where deception and violation of the posted terms of use is involved.

I can go gas up my car without fear that the gas station will blow up while I'm there, but that hardly means that gas stations can't blow up. Those signs make a legal difference, even if they seldom have much effect.

I guess it comes down to this: If you sneak a gun onto private property in violation of their signs, and are arrested, you can properly say to the police "this was unlikely" but not "you can't do this".

Bold text is mine.


I will defer to someone who is paid much more per hour to know these things than I am. What the statute refers to and it's ACTUAL application will definitly vary.