Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by reich View Post
    Ryan,
    Unfortunately LTC process is face to face. I have heard of mail in processes by other sherrifs,but all were required to stop that process.,This aparently is to stifle bogus LTC applicants. I don't know of anything to assist you until you make it back.The process currently takes about 10 minutes or less depending on PICS processing speed. From one vet to another, thank you for your service.
    Reich
    What agency "required" you to stop that process?

    What I've been told previously is that the equipment mandated by the PCCD simply won't accept passport photographs, nothing has ever been mentioned to me about concerns regarding fraudulent applications.

    If the Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network accepts passport photos, then there is nothing in the law preventing you from doing mail-in applications.

    I encourage you to look into this, because I see nothing in the law preventing a mail-in application unless the CPIN does not accept anything other than photos taken by a camera from your location.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSight View Post
    What agency "required" you to stop that process?

    What I've been told previously is that the equipment mandated by the PCCD simply won't accept passport photographs, nothing has ever been mentioned to me about concerns regarding fraudulent applications.

    If the Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network accepts passport photos, then there is nothing in the law preventing you from doing mail-in applications.

    I encourage you to look into this, because I see nothing in the law preventing a mail-in application unless the CPIN does not accept anything other than photos taken by a camera from your location.
    Assuming you get past the photo issues, I think the new STANDARDIZATION & MODERNIZATION OF PROCESS SYSTEM for LTCFs requires digital capture of signatures. Signatures are required by 6109(e)(3)(i) and apparently must be directly input into the new issuing system. This would obviate mail applications.
    Last edited by tl_3237; August 12th, 2011 at 11:54 AM.
    IANAL

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    I think its based on the new STANDARDIZATION & MODERNIZATION OF PROCESS SYSTEM for LTCFs that requires digital capture of signatures. Signatures are required by 6109(e)(3)(i) and apparently must be directly input into the new issuing system. This would obviate mail applications.
    Signatures were already required via the old system; that's nothing new, so if we "modernized" the system by making it harder to input information I would call that moving backwards, not forwards.

    Now, I have a financial report on this modernization process due to the Lt. Governor's office soon; I would like to be able to answer the question of where exactly this "in person" requirement originated from when I give him that report.

    So, tl_3237, thank you but I have a feeling you can't tell me anything about this modernization process I don't already know. If you see me ask a question about the process and have a legitimate answer go right ahead and say it, but don't presume that telling me information I already know somehow answers a question posed to someone else, because your post doesn't clarify anything, it doesn't answer the question asked, and it distracts from the question I did ask.

    Now, if you want to tell me which agency decided to take our equipment back a decade by not allowing the input of sent in photos and signatures, and show me the technical specs that prevent doing so, feel free to post or send me an e-mail; otherwise you're just wasting my time.

    ETA: alright so that reads a lot more direct than I intended earlier
    Last edited by IronSight; August 12th, 2011 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Somewhere before I became Sheriff, I believe they stopped the mail-ins. The face to face is for verification of who you are. Like everything else liability, criminals,terrorist,etc. I am sorry.
    Reich

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by reich View Post
    Somewhere before I became Sheriff, I believe they stopped the mail-ins. The face to face is for verification of who you are. Like everything else liability, criminals,terrorist,etc. I am sorry.
    Reich
    Other counties have were doing mail-ins earlier this year, so who are the "they" that stopped the mail-ins?

    If it is simply a policy you've continued that existed since before your election, and you don't know which previous Sheriff instituted that policy, then I'd ask you to at least admit that, and not try to pass the blame for your inability to help people such as Ryan onto others.

    I think it is a bit absurd really to tell our men and women in uniform that you can't help them simply because they might be a terrorist or criminal, and you supposedly won't know until you see their face. There are plenty of important government documents that can and are processed other than face-to-face while still requiring the applicant to prove they are who they say they are, not to mention in this case the obvious penalty of lying on the application form set forth in the law already.

    If you aren't going to issue anything other than face-to-face applications, then don't pass the buck on it. Honesty is important, and I think it's great you're on here answering questions, I know I put forth tough questions sometimes, but that's because things aren't always easy.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    IronSight
    All 57 counties switched to a new system starting around late last year that was mandated by the legislature. The current new system was then turned over to the State Police to run. I cannot quote "chapter and verse" right at this time. However, with that being said I will research Monday and give specifics to what I am talking about and report back here . Could you name the counties that are still doing mail-ins? I do not know how they do this as everything has to be done on site or maybe I have been missinformed. I am a veteran that served during the time of Vietnam. I have the highest regard for out current citizens in uniform. If I thought for a minute things go easy all the time I wouldn't be here. I am not always right. I don't think you know me. My career over the past 37 plus years has never been about easy. I am not defending my statements here, I am just stating facts as I know them ...or think I do. Regards!
    Reich

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by reich View Post
    IronSight
    All 57 counties switched to a new system starting around late last year that was mandated by the legislature. The current new system was then turned over to the State Police to run. I cannot quote "chapter and verse" right at this time. However, with that being said I will research Monday and give specifics to what I am talking about and report back here . Could you name the counties that are still doing mail-ins? I do not know how they do this as everything has to be done on site or maybe I have been missinformed. I am a veteran that served during the time of Vietnam. I have the highest regard for out current citizens in uniform. If I thought for a minute things go easy all the time I wouldn't be here. I am not always right. I don't think you know me. My career over the past 37 plus years has never been about easy. I am not defending my statements here, I am just stating facts as I know them ...or think I do. Regards!
    Reich
    I'll post a more detailed reply later with the information I have; I do hope you realize I'm not attacking you personally, just pressing with tough questions.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Ryan,
    Checked the LTC system further. There is no way I know of to do mail-in applications. Photos and signatures have to be electronically added at our office. The system has specific steps to follow or a permit is not able to be printed/issued. You cannot add a photo outside the program. Everything is now done by our software program over a secure internet setup. Our computer station is LTC only.
    IronSight, did you find any Sheriff's that still do mail-in's? I believe you will find that all are doing the same as I am.
    Reich

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Sheriff re election

    Quote Originally Posted by reich View Post
    Ryan,
    Checked the LTC system further. There is no way I know of to do mail-in applications. Photos and signatures have to be electronically added at our office. The system has specific steps to follow or a permit is not able to be printed/issued. You cannot add a photo outside the program. Everything is now done by our software program over a secure internet setup. Our computer station is LTC only.
    IronSight, did you find any Sheriff's that still do mail-in's? I believe you will find that all are doing the same as I am.
    Reich
    I never said any Sheriffs were still doing mail-ins, but several were earlier this year prior to the roll-out of the new software/hardware.

    If indeed the software/hardware is setup such that external photographs and signatures are impossible to add then it's patently clear to me that the PCCD, PSP, PA Sheriffs' Association, and the Philadelphia Police Department, whose members made up the PA Act 66 License to Carry Advisory Committee have stepped outside the mandate given to the PCCD under Act 66 and once again trampled the public trust by adding erroneous requirements to the process.

    It's clear to me that we didn't get a "modernized" system; we got one that took technology back five years.

    ETA: thank you for looking into it; I'll keep digging into when it was decided to make entry of photos and signatures in other manners impossible.
    Last edited by IronSight; August 17th, 2011 at 12:26 PM.

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