Questions about Heavy Barrels & Matte Finish

[Saddlerocker]

I have been focused on trying to find the right 223/243 Bolt Action rifle in Stainless Steel.
But after thinking about it, I am mainly going to be shooting at the range, it will be rare when I get out to the farm and actually shoot some varmints.

So I have basically decided on .223 due to the cheaper ammo, and less recoil (I know 243 is weak also).
Also Since I am going to be mostly range shooting I am now considering a Heavy barrel. I am now looking at the Weatherby Vanguard HB-TR http://www.weatherby.com/product/rif...ynthetic_hb_st.
The barrel is their #3 contour (.740 Diameter). My question is... is a heavy barrel really necessary? Will it last longer than a standard Savage or Remington 700 Barrel? Will it allow me to fire more inbetween letting the barrel cool down?

On to the matte finish. Most barrels are blued or stainless. Since I am realizing that My gun probably wont be getting wet very often, or at all, maybe I dont need stainless.
Is a Matte Finish better than blued? Easier to maintain? Or is it junk that will still rust and is harder to keep nice if it gets wet than blued?

Thanks for any input

[aubie515]

The Vanguard is made by Howa for Weatherby, so you will probably be able to find a Howa cheaper than the Vanguard.

As far as having a heavy barrel...a heavy barrel won't heat up as quickly as a standard contour. I don't think you "need" a heavy barrel...you could look for a #7 contour which is a varmint contour.

As far as finish is concerned..."matte" isn't a finish...it's used to describe that when something is matte it means that it's not reflective as say a glossy finish. SS is better in bad weather compared to blued, but SS also cost more as well. You could always refinish your barrel or action once you buy the rifle.

I personally like to refinish my firearms to give it an added protection from corrosion/rust...plus I'm not a fan of black firearms.

[dregan]

SS is also a little more wear resistant than some other steel or alloys, not all. Chrome is also very wear resistant among other things. So generally speaking a SS barrel sill outlast most others. I highly doubt though in your life time you will wear out a well built 223.

[red dog]

try checking out the savage model 10 carbine i am getting great groups with its big brother. savage is developing a good rep for accuracy and quality.have fun shopping.

[dk99358]

Blued firearms are fine in most weather. Getting caught in the rain at the range won't be a problem. Take it home, wipe it down, make sure it's dry, it'll last forever. I have one SS rifle but probably won't buy another. I bought it for those all day crappy weather deer hunts. But you know what? My blued/wood Ruger was doing fine for the previous 30 years.

Dale

[Saddlerocker]

Its seems the real "varmint" rifles with heavy barrel are 26", im trying to stay with 22"-24".
I know the SPS tactical has a heavier barrel, and is in my price range($500-$700) but the 20" barrel seems too short for target purposes.

Also the Savage 10FP-SR seems good, but I wonder what the affect, if any, those threads in the barrel have on accuracy

Maybe ill just go back to the Savage Weather Warrior series.

[Tomcat088]

Its seems the real "varmint" rifles with heavy barrel are 26", im trying to stay with 22"-24".
I know the SPS tactical has a heavier barrel, and is in my price range($500-$700) but the 20" barrel seems too short for target purposes.

Also the Savage 10FP-SR seems good, but I wonder what the affect, if any, those threads in the barrel have on accuracy

Maybe ill just go back to the Savage Weather Warrior series.

Part of the barrel length depends on who makes it, and what the use and caliber is. Lots of varmint rifles are chambered for cartridges like .22-250, or the shooter is looking to get as much velocity as possible. This can help with unknown distances and gives a little more room for margin of error, and some just like the explosive effects of bullets moving that fast.

Some of your reasoning behind barrel lengths doesn't make all that much sense to me. You think 20" is too short for targets shooting, but 26" is too long. So why do you tihnk 22-24" is the optimum length for target shooting? Most of the time you see longer barrel on "target shooting" rifles. The reason is because it's easy to carry a long barreled rifle from the car to the bench, plop it down, and not have to worry about moving it around or anything else. You're not carrying it through the woods where a long barrel could get hung on everything, or where you need to bring it up quickly and the extra barrel length bangs on things or gets in the way. On the other hand, I don't see why a 20" barrel is too short for target shooting. Shorter barrels will usually have slower velocities to a comparable longer barrel. When shooting at animals, there is sometimes requirements for a bullet's speed in order for it to open properly, or carry enough kinetic energy to kill a particular animal. So for this reason, sometimes a 20" barrel may not fit the needs of some hunters. Hunters do like fast handling rifles that don't get banged up on everything, so 20" does have certain benefits. Either way, since velocity requirements aren't what you'd be focused on, I don't see why a 20" barrel would be unsuitable for target shooting. Basically, I just don't get your reasoning behind your arguements against 26" and 20" barreled rifles.

You've gotten good information from the other posters. A "heavy barrel" isn't necessary for a target rifle, but they can be nice. The barrel contour won't necessarily add any measurable "barrel life" to a barrel. Lots of times, the loads that you're shooting, cleaning technique, cleaning regiment, barrel quality, barrel material and other factors will play a larger role in the barrel life. Heavy barrels will heat up slower than a "sporter contour", and will have less of a tendency to string, but it doesn't mean that they'll "last longer". By nature, a thicker contoured barrel is more rigid than a barrel the same length of a thinner contour. There are exceptions to this and other ways to look at it when it comes to fluting and other stuff, but I'm speaking as a generality. The more rigid the barrel is, the less it has a tendency to string. As the barrel heats up, any stress that is in the barrel will shift, and can cause the barrel to string; the more rigid that the barrel is, the less likely it is to string. You may have to take more time in between shots to maintain accuracy, but you may not. You may not even be able to shoot well enough, or be using a high enough quality of load to tell the difference. It all just depends on lots of things. The threads on the Savage rifle shouldn't effect accuracy negatively. They're put there should the user want to add a suppressor.

Under normal conditions and with normal/minimal maintenance, any of those finishes should be fine. I'm a Remington man, but I will say something about the SPS (including the tactical) line of rifles. In my opinion, their finish is not up to par with the rest of Remington's line. It's also my opinion that Remington's bluing and wooden stocks aren't made like they used to be made either. That's how most things are though I suppose. Comparisons between different brands are usually at least a little bit "brand" biased, it's kind of like Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, etc, pickups. Different people like different ones, related to what they're going to use it for, features vs. cost, certain features being offered by one brand and not another, etc. I'd recommend you handle some of the rifles, see where the safeties are, how the bolt and triggers feel, finish, and features like magazines, type of safety, twist rate of barrel, etc. and see what fits your needs best. If you want to shoot a particular weight of bullet, barrel length and twist rate may come into play. Let us know if you have more questions, we'll be happy to elaborate or help in any way that we can.

[aubie515]

If you get the SPS...you will want to replace that crappy stock...even the SPS with the Hogue stocks should be replaced.

With a 20" barrel, you will be fine in .223...it's not as if you are going to be taking 600+ yard shots with a .223 to begin with, so why worry. Many guys are going to the shorter barrels and they can still reach out to 1,000 yards.

It will take many many rounds to wear out a .223 barrel, but if you do...I'd opt for the Savage line because you can rebarrel your rifle in a matter of minutes plus you will save money. You will also gain the satisfaction that you did the work yourself.

Tikkas offer an amazing action and are affordable as well. The stocks aren't the best, but very usable.

[Saddlerocker]

About the barrel length, I guess im under the assumption that a shorter barrel is less accurate. 26" is to long imo because I will be carrying it from time to time around a farm. Thats why I figured a 22"-24" would be a happy medium between accuracy and portability, but your saying barrel length has more to do with velocity than accuracy? I am a total novice so not surprised if im way off.

Thanks for the info

[Tomcat088]

About the barrel length, I guess im under the assumption that a shorter barrel is less accurate. 26" is to long imo because I will be carrying it from time to time around a farm. Thats why I figured a 22"-24" would be a happy medium between accuracy and portability, but your saying barrel length has more to do with velocity than accuracy? I am a total novice so not surprised if im way off.

Thanks for the info

There are quite a few people that make this assumption, and it's not necessarily true. Many times this assumption is made by pistol shooters, or people thinking about rifles with iron sights. In many of these cases, the sights are placed on the "ends" of the rifle, and so the sight radius is changing. It's easier to aim, and do so more accurately with a longer sight radius. It's not because the barrel is shorter or longer, but because it's easier for the eyes to see changes in the sight over a greater distance. So a firearm with a longer sight radius may appear to be "more accurate" than another with a shorter sight radius; but in reality, it could just be that one is easier to line up properly than another. When using firearms with optics, this eliminates the sight radius from the equation. There's still some other things to consider.

One thing to remember is that velocity is NOT related to accuracy, as long as the range is "reasonable"; meaning you aren't gonna have luck with a light bullet moving 1,000 fps at 500 yards or something. When you measure accuracy between a bullet going 3,100 fps vs one going 2,600 fps, the one going 3,100 fps isn't necessarily going to be more accurate. It will just depend on the resonance of the barrel, bullet weight, twist rate, and LOTS of other things. Some people think the longer barrel is closer to the target, and so it'll be more accurate. It's true that it's closer to the target, but over even 100 yards, the distance closer to the target isn't going to make much of a difference. I want you to consider some other factors though.

Think about a piece of metal or a tape measure and holding it from one end. Let's say first you hold a piece of metal that's 10' long and it looks pretty straight out to the end. Then think about a piece of metal that is the same thickness as the 10 ft. piece, but now it's 20' long and heavier because there's more metal there. The 20' piece of going to "sag", and have some bow in it right? Obviously we're not talking about those kind of distances, but longer barrels do have a little bit of "sag" to them, and their length means that they have a slightly larger amount of "whip" to them. This does NOT mean that longer barrel are inaccurate, but it does make you think about another variable, and that the possibility of the barrel flexing and whipping. Another factor to think about is that with a longer barrel, the bullet is traveling own the barrel for a longer time. This means that while the time is VERY short (milliseconds), there is also the possibility to move the rifle MORE before the bullet exits the barrel. Since the bullet is in a shorter barrel for less time, there is less chance of you moving the barrel, or moving it a shorter distance while the bullet is still in the barrel and can be influenced by the shooter. There's a bit of a tradeoff though, and the effect may not be as large as someone thinks, simply because the bullet can be moving faster those last few inches of barrel, so it's not much longer that the bullet is in the barrel, but still a bit longer.

I'm not saying that shorter barrels are better than longer barrels. It just depends on what you are trying to do, what your needs are, preference, and even shooter. I'm just saying there are plenty of people that think shorter barrels are just as accurate, or even more easy to shoot accurately. The reasons being that they can be more rigid (less flex because of shorter distance), and less time to influence the bullet while it's in the barrel. Just remember that a shorter barrel doesn't equal less accuracy, and slower velocity doesn't mean less accuracy. Barrel length can be largely related to caliber, powder being shot and optimum burn length, velocity requirements, handling characteristics, etc. 22-24" barrels are usually a nice happy medium between velocity and handling characteristics, but NOT necessarily accuracy. Just remember that barrel length doesn't necessarily decrease accuracy. So if you like a rifle that has a 20" barrel, and everything else and twist rate fits what you desire, don't discount that rifle.