Viper's OC log

[LordTobias]

I appreciate your assertiveness but I don't think the cursing is appropriate between adults having an interaction in public.

I'm sorry, but isn't this man a police officer? Is there a big deal in saying the word fuck, especially when someone grabs you for no good reason? If someone has a problem with "curse words" they need to turn their fuckin' guns in right this instant, because they're not mature enough to carry them. Any cops who take issue with this need to hastily turn their badges in, too, because they're not fit to serve the public in any capacity. Really, what are we, 12? If a man grabs you -- cop or not -- and violates your personal space and the law you have every right to speak to him any way you see fit.

This whole encounter, and encounters like it, piss me off to no end. Why don't the cops go bust someone's balls who's actually doing something illegal? Oh, right. They're fucking incompetent and would rather harass law abiding citizens and feel like they own then. I guess they don't understand the phrase "Public Servants." Cop number 2 can go fuck himself, too. He played the nice guy but said some incredibly unreasonable things there. Did anyone stop to think that the cops openly carry firearms. Why is it okay for them to openly display firearms but not law abiding citizens? Have we all really become that pussified?

Anyway, if you decide to pursue legal action count me in on the fund.

Edit:

I'm pretty familiar with this area. I can say, without doubt, that the cops around Holmesburg/Mayfair tend to be bigger dickheads than most of the other cops in the city.

[ViperGTS19801]

Surprisingly, I received a response from Iron Hill regional management regarding the note I sent to them about being told that OC was not welcome at the Media restaurant. Sadly, it looks like I have gone and ruined it for everyone else yet again.

Dear Mr. Fiorino,

My name is Eric Maney and I am the Regional Manager for the Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant in Media, Pennsylvania. Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to inform us of your experience in our restaurant and interaction with one of our management team members.

While Iron Hill currently does not have an official policy on guns in our restaurants, we are actively debating if such a policy would be beneficial to our guests. I apologize that the manager on duty that day was not informed on how to handle a guest complaint on “open carry” and seems to have misrepresented our position. I will be following up with all our restaurant managers on how to proceed with this issue going forward.

While we certainly do not want to be drawn into the gun control debate, we must determine if having fire arms in an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages is prudent. In examining our response to fire arms, I am looking towards the Starbucks model as paraphrased below.

First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our employees to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Iron Hill employees to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our restaurants. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurants are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our restaurants is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers and our staff.

While I understand and respect your position I am requesting that you refrain from bringing fire arms into Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant. This is done in the same manner that we asks guest to refrain from smoking on our patio or any action or behaviors that may infringe on the dining experience of any other guest in our restaurant.

Once again I apologize for the way this was handled in the restaurant and I am disappointed that this past experience is your lasting impression of us. I would like to invite you back to Iron Hill. If you would kindly send me your address, I would certainly like to send you some gift cards as an apology for the way in which this was handled.

Now see, here's the thing. I have respect for a business wishing to keep their patrons as comfortable as possible. My beef is not actually with a private business seeking to accomplish this; I have a problem with people who think it's okay to make a mountain out of a righteous molehill. It's not the business' fault that this numbnutted liberal made a fool out of himself and startled the restaurant management.

As a result, I am going to respond back to the guy Eric and thank him for his time an attention on this matter, express my disagreement with those who find the practice of open carry to be dangerous while simultaneously expressing the differentiation between numbnuts' and business management's motives, then see if they are willing to consider - rather than sending me giftcards to win back our family's patronage - allowing me to assist them with drafting a policy that both protects and respect the right of the people to defend themselves while also keeping their wish to not startle the sheep in mind.

EDIT: Here's my response.

Dear Mr. Maney,

Allow me to express my appreciation for your time and attention on this matter. Until this discussion came up, I have not had a single negative or anything other than wonderful experience at any Iron Hill brewery in 3+ years of patronage, and your reply continues that trend.

Secondly, I have a proposition to offer you that, I believe, will satisfy both your desire to maintain a comfortable and relaxed atmosphere at your restaurants, while simultaneously protecting the rights of those who wish to keep themselves and their families protected.

Before getting into detail, I want to be very clear – I find the attitude of some people that the sight of a gun is deemed a threat to be absolutely ridiculous and illogical, especially when it’s being carried by someone who is not behaving suspiciously. However, it takes all kinds to make up the people of this world, and like you said, we can’t please everyone, so the best a private restaurateur can do is try to keep everyone as comfortable as possible. Also, while I understand where you’re coming from in terms of people carrying firearms and drinking alcohol, and I do not disagree that alcohol consumption in any amount of excess can be irresponsible and dangerous, that is a decision that I feel we must trust each individual to make for themselves.

That having been said, my proposition is this. I would like to assist you with drafting a firearms policy for Iron Hill Brewery. I am a civil rights activist and firearms enthusiast who tries to see the perspectives of everyone engaged in a debate, and I feel that the best way to at least attempt to make everyone happy is two-fold: 1) Request, as you have in your email, that patrons not carry firearms openly in your restaurants for the comfort of other customers, and 2) Encourage that any patron who legally carries a concealed firearm for self-defense purposes remembers to practice an appropriate level of responsibility, especially if they choose to consume alcohol, for the safety of other customers.

Please let me know what you think of this. I respect the lack of a desire to want to engage in a debate about gun control, and would not wish to see another establishment that I enjoy become embroiled in a subject that they have little to do with. However, it would be very refreshing to see a business make an effort to protect both sides of the argument in a non-partisan way.

Thanks for your time,

Mark Fiorino

[BimmerJon]

Surprisingly, I received a response from Iron Hill regional management regarding the note I sent to them about being told that OC was not welcome at the Media restaurant. Sadly, it looks like I have gone and ruined it for everyone else yet again.



Now see, here's the thing. I have respect for a business wishing to keep their patrons as comfortable as possible. My beef is not actually with a private business seeking to accomplish this; I have a problem with people who think it's okay to make a mountain out of a righteous molehill. It's not the business' fault that this numbnutted liberal made a fool out of himself and startled the restaurant management.

As a result, I am going to respond back to the guy Eric and thank him for his time an attention on this matter, express my disagreement with those who find the practice of open carry to be dangerous while simultaneously expressing the differentiation between numbnuts' and business management's motives, then see if they are willing to consider - rather than sending me giftcards to win back our family's patronage - allowing me to assist them with drafting a policy that both protects and respect the right of the people to defend themselves while also keeping their wish to not startle the sheep in mind.

EDIT: Here's my response.

Well written on both sides.

So you are advocating IHB to "allow" CC (don't ask, don't tell) but not allow OC (by way of discouraging it?)

[RightRock]

Got to love our state!

Most of it anyway. I still think we should sell Philly to NJ.

[Loggy1512]

Most of it anyway. I still think we should sell Philly to NJ.

Hell, I vote we just give it away!

[Kurt_D]

Most of it anyway. I still think we should sell Philly to NJ.

Hell, I vote we just give it away!

As enticing as that may sound, if we did it, then the PRNJ would have a presence on THIS side of the Delaware and travel in the area would be hell for bordering county residents.

As distasteful as the crap that goes on in Philly is, it's still better than on the other side of the river.

[serpentine]

Most of it anyway. I still think we should sell Philly to NJ.

Hell, I vote we just give it away!

I really don't want to live in Jersey. Maybe we can extend the boundary to include your jurisdictions so there could be a better balance...politically speaking.

But maybe we can leave these people out:
http://www.city-data.com/so/so-West-...nsylvania.html

http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Butler-Pennsylvania.html

[early1900s]

I really don't want to live in Jersey. Maybe we can extend the boundary to include your jurisdictions so there could be a better balance...politically speaking.

Agreed. I'm sick of all of these people talking about giving Philly to NJ.

[libra8]

Most of it anyway. I still think we should sell Philly to NJ.

Wait a minute. Not so fast. We already have our share of shit holes. Trenton, Camden and Newark come to mind.

[90volts]

While I understand and respect your position I am requesting that you refrain from bringing fire arms into Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant. This is done in the same manner that we asks guest to refrain from smoking on our patio or any action or behaviors that may infringe on the dining experience of any other guest in our restaurant.

Except that smoking isn't a right guaranteed not to be infringed on in the state or federal constitution.

The presence of a weapon in our restaurants is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers and our staff

What if I am unsettled and upset about a loudmouth the next table over, or a black guy with his pants down and his underwear showing, or a parent physically disciplining their child, or someone having a discussion about religion? Will they ban those as well?

It is rather telling that instead of 'firearm' he used the term 'weapon'. I'd their kitchen not full of 'weapons'? Do they not place a 'weapon' at every place setting? No? Because it's just a tool you say? Exactly.

If you have a problem with an individual I am 110% behind their decision to toss them. If you're not causing a problem, they live and let live.

I've been going their for at least 10 years. For car club events, bike events, hospital fundraisers and personal occasions. Guess that's not important to them, because I will stop and do all I can to stop my affiliations from hosting events there as well.