PA State Police vs. The Sheriff.....What gives?

[Torontogunguy]

Sent in my renewal application to save a drive (cheaper to renew a year early by mail versus driving all the way to the Sheriff's office from Toronto). Remember, this is a renewal. Also know that I am an American citizen and provided proof of citizenship by way of both passport and birth certificate. I sent in a copy of my CFP's from UT, VA, NH, etc., and last but not least FROM PA!

Got the whole shooting match back in yesterday's mail with a 1" x 1" sticky that said "Our state will not process Canada, Sorry". So I called the Sheriff and was told that this was a STATE POLICE ISSUE. They refused to run me through PICS. Sic.

I reiterated that this was only a renewal; I had already been run through PICS once at least.... and considering the issuance of everything from a birth certificate and passport to CFP's from six other states (all non-res) it was probably either a political muscle flexing; a "we can't be bothered" or whatever. In any event, this Sheriff is very pro 2A, etc., and has rolled up his sleeves to see what happens with the State Police, but apparently without their approval, my permit WILL indeed expire in several months with little hope of renewal.

I have been pouring over the state statutes and cannot find ANYWHERE in them where the State Police may arbitrarily say "since you don't reside in PA you don't get a PA non-res permit".

Has anyone else experienced this? Would love to know the outcome.

Funny thing is, when I lugged around a rifle for Uncle Sam there was no question of whether or not I was one of "We the People". It is only when the State Police got involved that I ceased to have any 2A rights in PA and lost my position as one of "We the People". My feet still hurt from those damn boots and rotten socks and it's been over 40 years. I have never asked a penny from my Uncle Sam for the aches and pains I suffer as a result of sleeping in shXXholes in the ground, in the rain. I am riddled with arthritis in my feet and in constanct discomfort.

Somehow I think I deserve the right to defend myself and my loved ones AT HOME AND ABOUT 40 years later. It bugs the heck out of me that some snot-nosed state trooper decides that he can't be bothered on my renewal.

As a matter of interest, I reiterate that I live one hour north of Buffalo in Toronto to be able to feed my family; my folks all live in NY, NJ, PA. I have a military security clearance in these parts (or did) in order to sell high tech receivers to military intelligence at a base that does not appear on the map (any map) and has revolving red lights and armed guards at every building. I serve as a volunteer for the R.C.A.C. and have been vetted to work with kids (and have to carry a card to do so). The list goes on.... there is no issue excepting perhaps a seat belt infraction from 20 years ago and perhaps the odd parking ticket. The FBI didn't seem to have any issues with finding out all about me in 6 other states and through the Department of State..... how the PA State Police can have an issue with me is beyond comprehension. Truly.

I am hoping that the Sheriff in XXXX County can sort things out for me in short order.

What are my options? This is now more a matter of principle than a matter of having a PA non-res permit as most of my other permits allow me to carry in PA anyway. It was just a nice thing to have while spending time there with my family. (All of whom carry)

Suggestions?

P.S. As a matter of interest, I am semi-retired and love a good cause. Seems to me that there is a tug of war amongst the State AG, State Police and Sheriffs or am I missing something here? I'd just love to be the one to move in with my cousins and spend some time in the Phily area keeping everyone busy in front of a judge.

[Big Chuck]

Call PICS yourself instead of relying on another link in the government chain.

[zackattack784]

Don't you need to possess a CWP from the state in which you reside in order to obtain a LTCF? Since you don't, maybe this is the issue?

[God's Country]

I have been pouring over the state statutes and cannot find ANYWHERE in them where the State Police may arbitrarily say "since you don't reside in PA you don't get a PA non-res permit".

Look a little harder.
You must have a permit from your state of residence to apply for a non res PaLTCF
And renewel has nothing to do with it. It's the same process regardless.

What are my options? This is now more a matter of principle than a matter of having a PA non-res permit as most of my other permits allow me to carry in PA anyway. It was just a nice thing to have while spending time there with my family. (All of whom carry)

As you stated your other permits are good in Pa anyway.



So when did you obtain all these permits?
Before you moved to Canada?

If so I have no idea whether those other states will reissue once they have expired.

[HiredGoon]

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses

<SNIP>

(e) Issuance of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

<SNIP>

(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

[pa350z]

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses

<SNIP>

(e) Issuance of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

<SNIP>

(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

Sounds like the Torontogunguy had a gift for many years. Now... someone at the State seems to be doing their job in administering the law.

[Torontogunguy]

Sounds like the Torontogunguy had a gift for many years. Now... someone at the State seems to be doing their job in administering the law.

Boy, did I ever choose the wrong forum to bring up the topic. Perhaps I don't make myself clear.
1. I am an American citizen otherwise not barred from receiving said License from PA.
2. I am not a resident of the United States at present but am an hour north of Buffalo NY putting food on my table.
3. I hold a Firearms Possession and Acquisition License from Canada/Ontario, but there are no provisions for carrying concealed in Canada unless you are a LEO or high ranking politician. The Police Commissioner is unable to get a carry permit which is called, in addition to the Possession and Acquisition License, an ATC (Authorization to Carry). Even LEO's do not generally have them as the statutes/laws state that a LEO does not require one.

So the way I see it, and I could be wrong, I should be good in terms of having the right to have a PA Non-Res License; the issue seems to be that the state police think that I am a Canadian and we're having a little trouble getting a PICS check done.... wonder why they don't do a NICS check instead.... that way they know NATIONALLY what my background is.

In any event, hoping they will accomodate me but either way I am presently good to go in PA anyway and by the time the politicians and beurocrats change things from 'shall issue' to 'may issue' to 'not a chance issue' I will be resident in Florida and perhaps still be able to get a permit there.

Hoping that the national reciprocity house bill goes through... then a permit from any state should be good in any other state.

And for the fella that asked, I actually got all of my permits as non-res while in Toronto and have a couple more available to me as one of "We the People". Who would have figured that PA, cradle of democracy, would be determining your right as one of "We the People" based on where you sleep at night.

[God's Country]

You have a thick skull my friend.

The Pa law has been posted. What you have been told by anyone else with regard to your citizenship is irrelevant because in the end you are not eligible for a Pa non res LTCF.

If you received one in the past under the same circumstances it was in error, which wouldn’t be the first time.

[Torontogunguy]

You have a thick skull my friend.

The Pa law has been posted. What you have been told by anyone else with regard to your citizenship is irrelevant because in the end you are not eligible for a Pa non res LTCF.

If you received one in the past under the same circumstances it was in error, which wouldn’t be the first time.

I am reading that you must possess a permit to carry concealed from your state of residence IF THAT STATE ISSUES SAME.

(a) I am not resident in a state that issues same.
(b) You really need to chill out and get your knickers out of that twist.

End of this thread as far as I am concerned.

[HiredGoon]

The way that I read it is... you must be a resident of either PA or any other U.S. state to be issued a PA LTCF.

In addition, non-PA residents must also have a license or permit to carry firearms from the state in which they reside, if that state does issue them.

There seems to be no provision for a resident of another country to get a PA LTCF, regardless of security clearances, etc.

If you have received a PA LTCF in the past as a resident of Canada, you seem to have fallen through the cracks somehow.