LTCF Application Question

**bob2055** · April 2nd, 2011, 11:53 PM

About a year ago I applied for and was denied a LTCF by the Philly PD because of a 10 year old arrest. All the charges from this arrest were "dropped" or "withdrawn" by the DA's Office. There was no deal, I didn't plead to a lesser change or anything like that. All charges were withdrawn by the DA. Due to this 10 year old arrest, the Philly PD denied my LTCF due to the character and reputation clause in state law. I don't have the denial letter anymore because I moved and must have lost it. I am in the process of having this arrest expunged from my record. After the expungement goes through and they notify me that the record has been expunged, I intend to apply again. In the mean time I applied for and received a LTCF from another state which has a written reciprocity agreement with PA. So my question is this, when I reapply do I have to tell the Philly on the application which is question 40 on the application, which states do you have a license from another state? Or is this question on the application for people who are applying for a non-resident LTCF?

**Ricochet** · April 2nd, 2011, 11:59 PM

Thats a damn shame they denied you by using the "character" clause.
There are many LEO's that have severe lacking of character.

If it were me, I would apply again, and if denied challenge it.

Also, do you have any kind of juvenile record? I know it shouldn't matter, but to the state of Pennsylvania it does.

**bob2055** · April 3rd, 2011, 12:06 AM

No juvenile record.

**zackattack784** · April 3rd, 2011, 12:21 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but how can you get an arrest expunged? Are there records for arrests? I thought convictions were the only thing that mattered?

**bob2055** · April 3rd, 2011, 01:14 AM

Non conviction data (meaning charges that were withdrawn) can be expunged upon a petition to the court of juristiction and a order from a judge granting it. Conviction data connot be expunged, except under certain conditions. Most conviction data can only be expunged by a pardon from the governor. You can also have your record expunged from charges that were nolle processed. That is called a redacted expungement, which expunges the charges that were nolle processed and only the conviction data remains. For example, say you were charged with prowling. But when you got to court your lawyer made a deal with DA to reduce the charge to Disorderly Conduct and you plead guilty to that. You can have the prowling charge expunged, but the Disorderly Conduct conviction will remain on your record.

**bob2055** · April 3rd, 2011, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by zackattack784

Forgive my ignorance, but how can you get an arrest expunged? Are there records for arrests? I thought convictions were the only thing that mattered?

Even though all charges were withdrawn from your arrest, your arrest remains a matter of public record forever. Unless you obtain an expungement order from a judge. An expungement order only expunges your record as far as public records are concerned. The police agency that arrested you and the state of justistiction will always have a record of your arrest. Meaning, if you obtain an expungement for an arrest (not conviction), and you apply for a job at a private company and they do a background check on you they won't find out you were arrested in tha past. However, if you apply for a government job, ever though your arrest was expunged they will still have a record of it.

**bob2055** · April 3rd, 2011, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by bob2055

Even though all charges were withdrawn from your arrest, your arrest remains a matter of public record forever. Unless you obtain an expungement order from a judge. An expungement order only expunges your record as far as public records are concerned. The police agency that arrested you and the state of justistiction will always have a record of your arrest. Meaning, if you obtain an expungement for an arrest (not conviction), and you apply for a job at a private company and they do a background check on you they won't find out you were arrested in tha past. However, if you apply for a government job, ever though your arrest was expunged they will still have a record of it.

It seems like were getting off the subject here, which is fine I don't really care about talking about expungements because I have first hand experience concerning this.
But my question is, on the LTCF application, do I really have to tell them I have an out of state permit? Or is that question more geared toward a person who is applying for a non resident PA LTCF?

**zackattack784** · April 3rd, 2011, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by bob2055

It seems like were getting off the subject here, which is fine I don't really care about talking about expungements because I have first hand experience concerning this.
But my question is, on the LTCF application, do I really have to tell them I have an out of state permit? Or is that question more geared toward a person who is applying for a non resident PA LTCF?

While imo most of the extra questions Philly asks are illegal, you should answer that question truthfully. If you lie, which you want to do, and they find out, I have no doubt you will be denied.

**HiredGoon** · April 3rd, 2011, 07:22 AM

Yeah, that question about another state's permit/license is on all PA counties' LTCF applications not just Philly's.

So, you should answer it truthfully.

**PhillyVet** · April 3rd, 2011, 09:00 AM

Interesting question - I've never thought about it before..

It's obvious (IMO) that question #40 is related to out-of-state applicants, however, a plain reading doesn't allow for this interpretation..

The PSP should probably change the form to read ".. If you are an out-of-state applicant, do you possess......" - or words to this effect. It should also state that you shouldn't answer the question if you're an in-state applicant.

That all being said, I would answer the question truthfully until the form is changed or the PSP or AG give difintitive instructions..

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