7.62x39mm AR build / questions

[Asmodeus6]

I pretty much have this all built out in my head.

But I would like to bounce it off the community to see what kind of feedback I get back.

I'll go with what I consider my "ideal" setup first. But I may make some concessions due to cost considering I DO want to use AK mags in this thing.

Which means $500 / MGI lower.
This is the part that REALLY pisses me off. I do not need/want a "modular" lower. I just want a lower that takes AK mags. Why that doesn't exist by itself I have no idea.

For the mean time however I will most likely just work on getting the upper taken care of and grab a couple CProducts mags and run it through a typical lower.

YHM has 16" barrels that are both fluted and chrome lined for what I believe to be a fair price. $205.
http://www.yhm.net/store/762_acc.html

Depending on how long those take to become available in I may go with an alternative. I have found standard barrels as inexpensive as $79.

http://www.esssolution.com/pricing

I am not building this as a precision instrument anyway. I will not be carefully working up handloads for this rifle. It will get fed Russian or surplus ammo. Which brings me to my next thought. Chrome lining... If I dump a bunch of Yugo surplus through this gun... I wonder if I'm going to end up with problems if I don't opt for a chrome lined barrel or a SS one.

My current experience with that situation includes the following:
I shoot TOK through a SS barrel and I don't even have to pay attention when cleaning it. I do nothing out of the ordinary that I wouldn't do on a 5.56 gun, and probably not even as good of a job and I have had zero issues. And that is certainly corrosive ammo running on a direct impingement gun! I don't even do much more than wipe the bolt off either. It's such a mess, that cleaning it to my normal standards is tedious to the point of absurdity. So I just don't. And it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever. That all being said I can, will, and do clean my firearms. I just don't want it to be an "on fire" issue if say I don't get to it for a day or something.

Other bits and pieces:
I would really like to try the MI SS series FF handguards this time around. I will not be installing 4 lasers, a bipod, 2 flashlights and 3 VFG's. So I do not want 4 rails that I have to cover with plastic or rubber shit that costs me MORE money, adds weight, and turns the front end of the gun into a cheese grater otherwise. Probably going with a 10". A Lo Pro GB, and some variety of .30 cal capable FH/brake.

I haven't decided on sights yet. But I may scope this rifle with a POSP type scope with BDC for x39mm. I like the scope on the PSL, and was thinking something along those lines might be fun. Especially since I can drop it right on the top rail with one of the picatinny options available. Still undecided on that one because of eye relief and cost.

Everything else on it will probably be business as usual for me. Magpul grip and stock of some variety. Most likely MIAD, and CTR or UBR. KNS pins, and a decent LPK of some variety.

I'm also considering doing it in FDE. Probably just the add on pieces. Stock, front rail, grip, etc. I'm not painting receivers.

I'm also not sure what bolt to buy. I'd really like to make it a piston gun. But from what I understand, while the Adam Arms kit would fit the barrel, they use a non-standard bolt spec in the carrier which will not allow me to use or modify a 7.62x39mm bolt to work in their carrier. And... you have to modify a carrier to work with AK mags in an MGI lower anyway. At which point we get into the realm of doing a lot of modifications to parts to get them to work... and I start to wonder how that will effect reliability. Or if it won't be a battle just to get it to function.

I may look into the possibility further. But it looks bleak on doing a piston gun.

Primary purpose for the rifle is - because I want to. I have a bunch of x39mm guns already. Mags, ammo. And I think I will like this more than yet another 5.56 AR. And this will be my second AR in a Commie caliber! lol! And the other one is some of the most fun you can have standing up! So I figured why not? Maybe squeeze a little more accuracy out of the round than I can in an AK while I'm at it.

Thoughts?

[Rundownfid]

Putting the 7.62X39 in an AR platform is not a good idea. The 7.62 is fine in close and out of an AR with the improved ergonomics, and sighting options may even be acceptably accurate to moderate distances. However, there are numerous rounds that will give better performance in whatever parameter you wish, with the exception of cheep ammo. If cheap ammo is your raison d'etra, then perhaps this is a decent idea. If you want performance, in close, out far, in terms of accuracy,etc there are better choices.

[chauncey]

I pretty much have this all built out in my head.

But I would like to bounce it off the community to see what kind of feedback I get back.

I'll go with what I consider my "ideal" setup first. But I may make some concessions due to cost considering I DO want to use AK mags in this thing.

Which means $500 / MGI lower.
This is the part that REALLY pisses me off. I do not need/want a "modular" lower. I just want a lower that takes AK mags. Why that doesn't exist by itself I have no idea.

For the mean time however I will most likely just work on getting the upper taken care of and grab a couple CProducts mags and run it through a typical lower.

YHM has 16" barrels that are both fluted and chrome lined for what I believe to be a fair price. $205.
http://www.yhm.net/store/762_acc.html

Depending on how long those take to become available in I may go with an alternative. I have found standard barrels as inexpensive as $79.

http://www.esssolution.com/pricing

I am not building this as a precision instrument anyway. I will not be carefully working up handloads for this rifle. It will get fed Russian or surplus ammo. Which brings me to my next thought. Chrome lining... If I dump a bunch of Yugo surplus through this gun... I wonder if I'm going to end up with problems if I don't opt for a chrome lined barrel or a SS one.

My current experience with that situation includes the following:
I shoot TOK through a SS barrel and I don't even have to pay attention when cleaning it. I do nothing out of the ordinary that I wouldn't do on a 5.56 gun, and probably not even as good of a job and I have had zero issues. And that is certainly corrosive ammo running on a direct impingement gun! I don't even do much more than wipe the bolt off either. It's such a mess, that cleaning it to my normal standards is tedious to the point of absurdity. So I just don't. And it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever. That all being said I can, will, and do clean my firearms. I just don't want it to be an "on fire" issue if say I don't get to it for a day or something.

Other bits and pieces:
I would really like to try the MI SS series FF handguards this time around. I will not be installing 4 lasers, a bipod, 2 flashlights and 3 VFG's. So I do not want 4 rails that I have to cover with plastic or rubber shit that costs me MORE money, adds weight, and turns the front end of the gun into a cheese grater otherwise. Probably going with a 10". A Lo Pro GB, and some variety of .30 cal capable FH/brake.

I haven't decided on sights yet. But I may scope this rifle with a POSP type scope with BDC for x39mm. I like the scope on the PSL, and was thinking something along those lines might be fun. Especially since I can drop it right on the top rail with one of the picatinny options available. Still undecided on that one because of eye relief and cost.

Everything else on it will probably be business as usual for me. Magpul grip and stock of some variety. Most likely MIAD, and CTR or UBR. KNS pins, and a decent LPK of some variety.

I'm also considering doing it in FDE. Probably just the add on pieces. Stock, front rail, grip, etc. I'm not painting receivers.

I'm also not sure what bolt to buy. I'd really like to make it a piston gun. But from what I understand, while the Adam Arms kit would fit the barrel, they use a non-standard bolt spec in the carrier which will not allow me to use or modify a 7.62x39mm bolt to work in their carrier. And... you have to modify a carrier to work with AK mags in an MGI lower anyway. At which point we get into the realm of doing a lot of modifications to parts to get them to work... and I start to wonder how that will effect reliability. Or if it won't be a battle just to get it to function.

I may look into the possibility further. But it looks bleak on doing a piston gun.

Primary purpose for the rifle is - because I want to. I have a bunch of x39mm guns already. Mags, ammo. And I think I will like this more than yet another 5.56 AR. And this will be my second AR in a Commie caliber! lol! And the other one is some of the most fun you can have standing up! So I figured why not? Maybe squeeze a little more accuracy out of the round than I can in an AK while I'm at it.

Thoughts?

man, good luck, i think thi sis one of the toughest ideas you can bite off. several manufacturers have tried this and i am not really sure if any have succeeded. that said, best of luck.

did you build the x25?

[Asmodeus6]

man, good luck, i think this is one of the toughest ideas you can bite off. several manufacturers have tried this and i am not really sure if any have succeeded. that said, best of luck.

did you build the x25?

I certainly did! Direct impingement 7.62x25 AR is a ton of fun. Basically the same idea applies to this. Spend the money up front and all the pain is out of the way. I liked the TOK round, but none of the guns chambered in it. Sure I could have dropped a measly $200 on a TT-33 and hated it for being such a pofs. But instead I spent $1200 and built an AR pistol instead. Which is completely awesome btw. And at $.09 a round. I can shoot it as much as I want and not feel the burn. It also cranks 1600fps minimum out of a 7" barrel.

And to think. I almost built a 9mm AR. I'm so glad I didn't!


Rundown,
As for better calibers than 7.62x39mm. There are a bunch. But, consider the following;
I already have a bunch of guns in this caliber.
A pile of AK mags.
A good inventory of ammo.
And when I shoot, I do so in volume. So it being cheap is a huge bonus.
I also do not reload, making fancy calibers extremely undesireable at this time.

Can it be outperformed? Sure. But for me, I think it will make a lot of sense. And out of an AR, more accurate than one of my AK's.


But really, if I wanted to be a cheap ass I would do one in 5.45x39mm. But I think 5.56 covers that category better, and while it is not cheap in comparison to 5.45... it has way better ammunition available for it.

There is also the point of muzzle devices. Say a 7.62 can down the road maybe? That would cover quite a few things around here.

[Rundownfid]

I certainly did! Direct impingement 7.62x25 AR is a ton of fun. Basically the same idea applies to this. Spend the money up front and all the pain is out of the way. I liked the TOK round, but none of the guns chambered in it. Sure I could have dropped a measly $200 on a TT-33 and hated it for being such a pofs. But instead I spent $1200 and built an AR pistol instead. Which is completely awesome btw. And at $.09 a round. I can shoot it as much as I want and not feel the burn. It also cranks 1600fps minimum out of a 7" barrel.

And to think. I almost built a 9mm AR. I'm so glad I didn't!


Rundown,
As for better calibers than 7.62x39mm. There are a bunch. But, consider the following;
I already have a bunch of guns in this caliber.
A pile of AK mags.
A good inventory of ammo.
And when I shoot, I do so in volume. So it being cheap is a huge bonus.
I also do not reload, making fancy calibers extremely undesireable at this time.

Can it be outperformed? Sure. But for me, I think it will make a lot of sense. And out of an AR, more accurate than one of my AK's.


But really, if I wanted to be a cheap ass I would do one in 5.45x39mm. But I think 5.56 covers that category better, and while it is not cheap in comparison to 5.45... it has way better ammunition available for it.

There is also the point of muzzle devices. Say a 7.62 can down the road maybe? That would cover quite a few things around here.

All good points, hope you enjoy the rifle. I probably should apologize for "pissing on your parade", it is afterall what you want that counts. How about some pictures?

[Asmodeus6]

All good points, hope you enjoy the rifle. I probably should apologize for "pissing on your parade", it is afterall what you want that counts. How about some pictures?

No, I know you were just throwing that out there, and you aren't wrong. There are just more reasons for "me" to build it than maybe the average person.

I'm still in the planning stages. So no pictures thus far. I'm selling off things I don't need to help fund it. Maybe turn some things I have sitting around into this rifle. Which helps offset some of the cost.

I did find the AR47 lowers though. So I don't need to spend the money on the MGI. They are $375 instead of $500. Which is good.

I think somewhere down the line this will allow me to do a 5.45 gun as well since the AK specific lower will work with a VERY slight modification on both kinds of mags.

I also did some reading on this. And it looks like the heavy DPMS Lo-Pro upper I'm selling... is the preferred one for this build. Since you have to clearance it for AK mags and it's way thicker than a normal receiver. So I guess I'll be holding on to that one? Also read that bolts have a tendency to break on these conversions. And I'd still like to see the modifications needed to make the upper work, and the bolt carrier. I'd like to do them myself.

I guess once I get the pieces in, I can always figure it out.

If I get that barrel from ESS and the MI SS handguard. Short of a $30 gas block and I'm probably going to try MGI's adjustable gas tube. I can put the upper "shell" together for money I already have set aside. That just leaves me needing a bolt and carrier. And the $375 bones for the lower.

Might do a UBR or ACS this time around, but not 100%.

[Nate7667]

This is a guy you might want to talk to.
He runs the MGI lower with a AR/AK47/AK74 mags with a RDIAS.
I know you said you found the other lowers, but he still may have some good info for you with uppers, bolts, or other parts.

http://www.ar15.com/member/member.html?id=8380

[Asmodeus6]

Osprey is claiming their piston kit is GTG with 7.62x39.

I have read for a fact the Adams Arms piston kit is a no go in most situations. Which is fine because I don't want that gas block anyway. I want to throw a 10" rail on a 16" gun for a more seamless look. This means lo-pro gas block and probably the osprey kidney bean (lol) if it will run on a x39mm gun.

I looked at the ARES kits too, but there isn't a lot of info out there about them as far as what works and what doesn't that I can find. But I'm still looking.


Yeah maybe I'll drop that guy a line Nate. If I could get the details or pictures of the clearencing he did on the upper and the bolt carrier that would be great.

I'm still snooping around trying to make sure I know everything I need to know before I start buying anything. Still trying to round up funds too.

[ungawa]

There are guys in the M16 section of Uzitalk that have done this as well. You can search the forum or post your plan there.

[Asmodeus6]

Looks like AR-Performance has bolt / barrel combo's available as well. The baller spiral fluted one I want is $400 however.

*sigh*