Why wouldn't a regular FFL dealer ship to a C&R licensee?

[carrguy1]

Just curious but I was looking at a C&R eligible gun on gunbroker for sale by an FFL. Some listings specifically mention that they do ship to C&R licensees and some do not but almost every time I ask them if they do through the gunbroker contact system they reply, usually quickly, that they do. The listing today did not mention C&R at all so I asked the question and they quickly replied that they do not ship to C&R holders. Does anyone have any insight into why they wouldn't do that? I suppose it's their right as a business owner and I'm guessing they have no obligation to ship to a C&R but why wouldn't they? If I were to walk into their shop with a copy of my C&R and driver's license, as I have done locally before, I wonder if they would refuse to sell it to me.

[Noah_Zark]

A C&R license is every bit an FFL as the license a dealer or SOT has, just for collectors to facilitate adding to.their collections or for disposing of pieces from a collection. It is NOT for engaging in the business of buying and selling.

That as background, in my experience most "regular" dealers recognize a C&R as the FFL that it is. Some do not. Of those who do not, they seem to fall into two groups: 1) FFLs that do not understand what a C&R is and what firearms are classified as Curios and Relics (short version, ANY cartridge firearm 50 yrs or older by manufacture date according to the S/N or known production records), or 2) FFLs that see C&R licensees as "lost sales"; people who would otherwise be a regular customer, buying the old guns from them instead of directly from distributors or other dealers. Of the latter, I have crossed paths with a few regular FFLs who were positively nasty iceholes when I asked if I could use my C&R. Only a few.

Some said sure, but they made me do a 4473 and SP4-113 if a handgun was being purchased. So I didn't bother giving them a copy of the license.

The vast majority of "regular" FFLs do accept C&R licenses if for no other reason that it is one less 4473 / background check to do.

Noah

[Hodgie]

Like stated above it's either due to sheer ignorance or out of spite. One of the local shops in my town would not sell a pistol to my brother through his C&R. Their reason was there was no way for them to legally sign it out of their bound book. I told the guy it's the same as any other FFL to FFL transfer. The woman who does their book disagreed and we politely moved on our way and they list out on $750.00.

The private FFL I deal with is more then happy to save me PICS fees whenever her has a C&R item I want in stock.

[BadMonk]

Some good explanations. I often wondered that myself and kinda sorta guessed those were the answers. Normally, if a FFL refused to honor my o3 FFL, I'd politely walk away...feeling like a I belonged in a basket of deplorable FFLs.

[carrguy1]

I chuckled at the deplorable comment. The explanations make sense even if their reasons for not accepting don't. I would think that you'd want to make a legal sale with less hassle. I don't understand why a dealer would be a jerk about it though. If I'm not allowed to use it I'll take my business elsewhere.

The first time I used mine was at the Oaks show about 4 years ago. PICS was down I guess because of the volume and no one was really able to buy or sell. I told the particular dealer that I wanted the rifle I was looking at and he told me he couldn't sell. I told him I had a C&R and he was delighted to be able to make a sale.

[Ecclectic Collector]

As others have pointed out, both greed at losing the revenue of paying dealer fees for transfer as well as sheer ignorance are reasons why some 01 FFL licensees refuse to transfer to an 03.

However state laws do come into play from time to time.

Maryland for instance does not allow handguns to be sold to a C/R license. I've had this problem even though I point out I am out of state and the firearm is going to a state that allows me to use my 03 license for a handgun purchase.

I've also had dealers who said that once a weapon is in their books, they won't honor the 03 even when a gun is legally antique. This has happened multiple times. Luckily the most recent time this happened we'd already negotiated a price with transfer included so it wasn't a deal breaker.

[Hokkmike]

A C&R license is every bit an FFL as the license a dealer or SOT has, just for collectors to facilitate adding to.their collections or for disposing of pieces from a collection. It is NOT for engaging in the business of buying and selling.

That as background, in my experience most "regular" dealers recognize a C&R as the FFL that it is. Some do not. Of those who do not, they seem to fall into two groups: 1) FFLs that do not understand what a C&R is and what firearms are classified as Curios and Relics (short version, ANY cartridge firearm 50 yrs or older by manufacture date according to the S/N or known production records), or 2) FFLs that see C&R licensees as "lost sales"; people who would otherwise be a regular customer, buying the old guns from them instead of directly from distributors or other dealers. Of the latter, I have crossed paths with a few regular FFLs who were positively nasty iceholes when I asked if I could use my C&R. Only a few.

Some said sure, but they made me do a 4473 and SP4-113 if a handgun was being purchased. So I didn't bother giving them a copy of the license.

The vast majority of "regular" FFLs do accept C&R licenses if for no other reason that it is one less 4473 / background check to do.

Noah

As you are aware, the advantage of the C&R is getting guns cheaper directly from whole sellers. There is little advantage to buying from a FFL except for the transfer/background check fee savings.

An FFL will always (should anyway) err on the side of protecting his investment in his business.

Some people are just overly cautious. That is my best explanation.

[carrguy1]

Here's a hypothetical question along the lines of the discussion then. What If I were to buy a gun online (gunbroker, etc.) that gets shipped to my local FFL (home-based). If he knows how C&R licenses work would it be possible for him to just give me the gun if I give him a copy of my C&R? Let's assume him not collecting a fee for having the gun shipped to him is not a problem (or maybe I give him one for his trouble just without a traditional transfer). That way the seller is happy because he shipped to an FFL and I'm happy because I used my license without a transfer. I have no problem submitting to a background check/transfer under normal circumstances but if I have a license that allows me to legally buy a certain classification of firearm without a background check then I want to be able to use it.

[Noah_Zark]

. . . What If I were to buy a gun online (gunbroker, etc.) that gets shipped to my local FFL (home-based). If he knows how C&R licenses work would it be possible for him to just give me the gun if I give him a copy of my C&R?

Yes.

Sometimes if I buy from online and the selling FFL won't ship to a C&R, my local dealer who has a copy of my C&R FFL accepts the firearm and logs it in, and logs it out to me.

Noah

[abner13]

First of all , I don't think you can verify a C&R as easily as a reg FFL.

Second, I was told by a dealer I've known 30+yrs (and has sold me many guns via my C&R) that he was told by the PSP that they do not consider C&R handgun sales as legal in PA because they are not "registered" into the ROS database. He also told me the PSP told him that a handgun purchased as a C&R cannot be carried for self-defense , again , because they are not in the ROS. This is a long established dealer and he does not bullshit. He knows the PSP was full of it.