Saiga 12 gas tube fouling

**FNG19** · February 26th, 2011, 02:28 AM

Well, the indestructible Saiga 12 ain't, alas! I was doing some shooting tonight to test out both my new tromix brake and the MD Arms gas selector, and I was having some real cycling problems. Long story short, when I took the shotgun home after aborting my attempts to figure out the problem, I pulled off the gas selector, cleared out the junk that was in the the tube between the puck and the gas selector, and tried to remove the gas puck.

It's in there but good, though it will move the inch or so the gas system is designed to allow it to. Using a hammer (GENTLY) with a rod didn't seem to affect much. I recall the admonishments not to put lubricants/etc in the gas tube, and have been conscientious about that, so it's not sludge buildup. At this point, I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm looking for suggestions not only on how to remove the gas puck, but also how to remove the fouling from the gas tube.

Once I get that gas tube fouling situation fixed, I imagine my cycling problems will disappear, too. My Saiga-12 and I are both eager to have the problem resolved.

Thanks in advance!

**t99hv** · February 26th, 2011, 02:18 PM

I used an old brass rod to tap out my puck, then went to work with a 12 ga brass brush on a single section of cleaning rod and put it in an electric drill. hit it with that for a few seconds and wiped it out with a rag. Then took a dental pick to the ports. Old toothbrush to the gas plug and threads, takes me about 5 to 10 minutes start to finish, puck always moves freely when done.

**Pagoda240** · February 26th, 2011, 03:14 PM

I actually took the dremel to the puck and the walls and polished both

**scoutjoe** · February 26th, 2011, 10:05 PM

Ok there is a cutaway of what you're looking at. Take out the bolt carrier and use pretty much anything you can fit through the hole to knock out that gas puck. I use a section of 12 gauge cleaning rod. Then I put the muzzle on a block of wood and give the cleaning rod enough of a smack to get out the puck. As long as you arn't on a "ledge" you can knock the puck out.

About how many rounds/ what are you firing ? Using a stock gas piston and plug I ran over 3000 rounds through my one S-12 before cleaning the gas block before I got bored and cleaned it. Mostly birdshot, cheapest I could find.

I have noticed that reduced recoil slugs will foul the block quickly, don't know what setting on the MD arms plug you're using so overgassing the gun could foul it faster, but that seems like a stretch to me..

**FNG19** · February 26th, 2011, 10:28 PM

Update: Using a brass cleaning rod I forgot I had, I managed to remove the gas puck with some assertive percussive diplomacy. The puck was a mess. I cleaned just about all the carbon/etc buildup, but it looks like there's still some residue on the side of the puck that was facing the gas ports.

Once I did that, I attempted to re-install the gas puck. It wouldn't go past the threads without some more percussive diplomacy, so I decided that wasn't going to work. The issue now is getting the actual carbon buildup and fouling out of the gas puck end of the gas tube. Any hints here? I saw the suggestions from t99hv and Pagoda240 to use a drill with a brass brush inserted into the chuck -- thanks, guys! Are there any other tips anyone has in addition? Should I consider a chemical solution to this problem, or is the drill setup the right answer?

ScoutJoe, regarding your questions:

1) Rounds: I'd say I ran 50-70 rounds of various kinds through it. Some birdshot, 2.75" magnum 00 buck, federal tactical low recoil tactical buck, some slugs. That said, most of those rounds were several weeks ago when I got the gun back from a 922 refit, so I'm still trying to figure out what the new normal is. Last night, when this saga started, I was doing 5 of the aforementioned magnums, 5 of the low recoil, and a couple of birdshot just to test the cycling. Last night was my first test of the shotgun with the MDA gas selector and tromix shark brake installed. Prior to last night, it was the standard gas selector and stock thread protector.

2) Selector Setting: While shooting last night, I started at the lowest setting and gradually walked up to 4. I think I needed to set it on 3 before aforementioned magnums would reliably cycle the bolt. Once I had to dial up to 4 to get the low recoil to cycle, I figured it was time to stop and look into what was going on, which led me to open the gas tube, which leads us back to the first post in the thread.

**t99hv** · February 27th, 2011, 08:08 AM

Maybe you got some plastic from the wads in there causing it to gum up. I'm with scoutjoe, I clean mine around every 1500 to 2000 rounds of federal bulk pack, could probably go more, but mine is a little over gassed and tends to get dirty. I had a problem at first with flakes of plastic getting in my gas system. Had some burrs in my gas ports, once I cleaned up my ports and did some polishing around the bolt and chamber my problems went away. Oh, and all I shoot out of mine is federal and remington bulk pack birdshot.

**scoutjoe** · February 27th, 2011, 10:05 PM

I would use a brass brush, in the drill or by hand using it like a scrub brush. I wouldn't use too much speed on the drill though. As far as any liquid persuasion I have used a very little bit of Hoppes #9 on a piece of t-shirt wrapped around a 12 gauge bore brush. That being said I dry it very very thoughly.

When the puck is clean you should be able to push it back into the gun and once the plug is back on tilt the gun forward quickly and backwards quickly using the handguard as your pivot point (think targeting micro zombies then the rabid spider in the corner of the ceiling). You should hear a "ka plunk" of the puck moving back and forth. Its not required but you'll be clean for sure.

If you have a dental pick you could see if there is a bunch of gunk in your gas ports (plastic wadding maybe?). That being said I haven't had to do that with mine yet.

**FNG19** · March 6th, 2011, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by scoutjoe

When the puck is clean you should be able to push it back into the gun

Update: I finally got the 12g brass brush and rod adapter, and borrowed a DeWalt. I scrubbed out front of the gas tube where the puck goes for about 30 seconds at about half-speed, but didn't use any Hoppes or anything. After doing that, I tried getting the puck back in. It would go part way in, so I tapped it back in, but once it dropped into the front of the gas tube, it moved freely back and forth. I don't recall how hard the old puck was to get in and out, so I don't recall if this was normal or not.

So with that done, I'll have to run the shotgun through its paces again and see what happens!

**FNG19** · March 27th, 2011, 06:34 PM

Update: I took the Saiga out yesterday for the first time since I thought I corrected the problem. Turns out that three things were at play:

1) Dirty puck that was a hair larger out of the box than the stock one is, thus making for a slightly tighter exit when clean, not to mention when dirty.

2) My own ignorance of how the V-Plug actually works. As it turns out, 5 (wide open) is the stock selector's 2. Stock 1 is VPlug's 3 or 4, depending on the individual Saiga (mine appears to be 3).

3) Failing to use a chemical aggressive enough to clean the kind of junk shotguns foul up with. I have a product that I swear by, but it's not up to this particular job, so I had to call in the heavy reinforcements (Hoppes #9). It's amazing what a Q-Tip worth of the stuff will do if you let it sit for a minute or two.

So, it looks like all is well with the world now! Thanks for your help, guys. I'll remember the tips you gave, particularly the drill tip.