1911 work

**FI133** · February 26th, 2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by guitarguy1

I've grown up with LEO my entire life, you never want someone left alive if they attack you. I've been told that, at least in VA, if you have to shoot someone, they damn sure better be dead, otherwise it's worse for you

AS A LEO, COLT ARMORER, KIMBER ARMORER, AND SEVERAL OTHER MANUFACTURE ARMORER, AS WELL AS FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR, IF YOU SHOOT AND KILL SOMEONE WITH YOUR WEAPON, AND NO MATTER HOW JUSTIFIED YOU ARE SHOOTING, YOUR WEAPON WILL BE TAKEN FROM YOU AND EXAMINED. IT WILL BE IN THE HANDS OF THE LOCAL DEPARTMENT, DA OFFICE AND THE "FIREARMS EXPERT" TO SAY THAT THE WEAPON WAS NOT IN SPEC AND THAT YOU ALTERED THE GUN, THIS COULD LEAVE YOU LIABLE FOR RECKLESSNESS, NEGLIGENCE AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER UNNEEDED CRAP.

I understand wanting to make your 1911 more confortable to shoot. You can't just rely on the grip saftey. the gun is designed to work together with everything in place. Last week i was brought one of our guns in which the grip saftey failed. thankfully this was found when the operator (tac guy) reassembled after a field strip and did a function test. I had the gun striped down and I rebuilt. The malfunction came from the grip saftey which had to be replaced. Now if that OFC uses that sidearm and kills someone, every thing done to that weapon comes back to me, meaning I become liable for maintaining the weapon, and ensuring that the weapon functioned correctly and that I was trained to do so. I hate to see someone get jammed up if they defend themselves legally. And I will agree with others out there TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN, and train how you will use your gun. I do not recomend one in the pipe with the hammer down. even though the firing pin requires a certain amount of force to engadge the primer >>>>

Put it this way, when you are engaged in a life threatening situation, where you are in a gun fight or you know you are going to have to shoot someone, your body is going to go into muscle memory. remembering how you train, drawing your gun, taking aim pulling the trigger. Everything will go in slow motion, you will not hear anything> you will have tunnel vision! I was in such a situation and did a combat reload that I did not even realize at the time I had done, or I couldn"t recall doing it. So if someone wakes you out of a sleep, are you going to cock the hammer nice in easy, when your heart is pounding, disoriented, or are you going to be looking for a magazine to load? You will have many emotions running through you, but the ultimate though is that you want it to be over. Just think about it. You can do what makes you happy but most on this forum just wants you to be aware of what you are doing and dont want you to get into any legal issues or you have a mishap.
Good luck to you.

**thundrr1** · March 2nd, 2011, 09:14 PM

You may get by in criminal court. In a civil trial (which WILL follow the criminal trial, eventually) you will be eaten alive by the lawyer. Train, train. Use your weak side hand on the thumb safety, if you must.

You have made up your mind, so just do it. You've been told the answer to your question. It's not a good idea,,,, but you still want to do it. Obviously logic and reason aren't what you want to hear. So,,,,,,,it's your call. Not ours.

**marinville** · March 3rd, 2011, 12:16 AM

Well alright, I'll throw in my two pennies.

You want to know why it would be considered unsafe to remove the primary safety from your weapon. Think that over for a second.

OK, now lets talk about the grip safety. The grip safety alone isn't making the firearm safe, period. Any time you are holding the firearm you have now de-activated the grip safety. So without the thumb safety, anytime you hold the pistol it is capable of firing.

What's the difference between that and a glock? Well, first of all the glock has a safety built into the trigger which makes it more difficult for the trigger to be unintentionally pulled. Secondly, the single action trigger pull of a 1911 is typically much lighter than the modified DAO pull on a glock. In both of these cases, the chances for the modified 1911 firing when you don't want it to are greater than those of a factory glock doing the same.

Even if that doesn't bother you (and it should) the bigger problem is that there is no safe way to drop the hammer on a chambered 1911. This is why the gun is designed to be carried cocked and locked.

Every time you drop the hammer on a chambered round, you are bypassing ALL of the pistols safety mechanisms (grip safety, thumb safety, and firing pin block.) You are also violating one of the three laws of gun safety, which states: Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot.

You are begging for a negligent discharge, and all the while your poor thumb is directly in the path that the slide will be traveling when you do have that negligent discharge. In short, when your thumb slips (and it only has to happen once) you are going to lose that thumb.

In summary: You will have a negligent discharge, and when you do, you will be lucky if you only injure yourself, and not some poor bastard on the other end of the muzzle.

**guitarguy1** · March 3rd, 2011, 01:16 AM

thank you for the answers. I wasnt trying to come across as an asshole. I was just trying to find out and understand why people were saying what they were saying. Thank you all for the suggestions, and after reading through the responses I guess Ill just try and find one of the ultra-low thumb-safeties so it stays out of my way

**FI133** · March 3rd, 2011, 10:37 AM

I had a couple older thumb saftey from an auto ordinance. they are much smaller and smoother. actually the older colts were made that way before colt started using parts from Smith and Alexander.

**basshunterpa** · March 15th, 2011, 08:06 PM

I actually saw one at a show that had the saftey ground down. It was a stainless, so pretty easy to smooth out. I still couldn't do it to one of mine, but I really don't have any reason to do so....

**springfield24** · March 16th, 2011, 12:25 PM

I can understand what you're going for. If you've got the Series 80 firing system, eliminating the thumb safety would still leave you with the grip safety and "drop safety". But, I can't really condone doing this. If you're using the gun for home defense, just leave the safety in the off position. If you really don't like the size of it, try getting a safety like this WWI style: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=795646 That's about the smallest you can make your safety and still have it be functional.

Personally, if I was a LEO arriving at a home invasion call, I wouldn't be real thrilled if the homeowner was armed with a gun that had the safety hacked off.

Also, the thumb safety provides you with a good reference point for your shooting hand thumb. I (and most other shooters) will stress the use of the thumbs-forward grip especially when it comes to shooting the 1911.

Like somebody already mentioned, there is also the risk of a good lawyer pointing out the fact that you removed the safety to "kill" quicker. but, other than that, I don't think there is a law that prevents you from doing this.