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Thread: No-Knock Warrants
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February 14th, 2011, 01:26 PM #1Grand Member
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No-Knock Warrants
This is a scary new trend. How does everyone feel about this issue?
Here is the shooting for reference
Dressed in black and carrying assault rifles, members of a local multi-jurisdiction police unit burst into a dark home in Ogden, Utah, one night in September shouting, "Police! Search warrant!"
A video of the incident made by the Weber-Morgan counties Narcotics Strike Force and the federal Drug Enforcement Agency shows a man suddenly appearing in a hallway holding a shiny object that an officer thought was a sword, but was really a golf club, according to Weber County Attorney Dee Smith.
In the instant he appeared, the video shows, three shots rang out and the man, Todd Blair, 45, fell to the floor, dead.
The Ogden incident was among a growing number of no-knock police raids last year, a tactic that has grown in use from 2,000 to 3,000 raids a year in the mid-1980s, to 70,000 to 80,000 annually, says Peter Kraska, a professor of criminal justice at Eastern Kentucky University who tracks the issue.
That increase has raised questions about the tactic, including whether the surprise element poses an unnecessary threat to people whose residences are invaded.
Judges can issue no-knock warrants when they believe the element of surprise could help officers avoid danger or keep people from destroying evidence, Kraska says.
Critics say the no-knock tactic gives residents — some innocent — seconds to decide if they face a police raid or a home invasion.
At times, particularly in drug cases, police make their case for no-knock search warrants based on faulty information from unreliable informants, says Ezekiel Edwards, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union.
"That's just going to increase invasions of privacy and tragic harm to both residents and officers," he says.
In the Odgen incident, Sgt. Troy Burnett was found to have handled the situation appropriately, Smith says. "This was a split-second decision. He acted according to his training."
Arlean Blair, mother of the man who was shot, says her son posed no threat to officers. "They could have used rubber bullets. They could have used spray," she says.
Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, says the onus for the increase in no-knock cases is on the judges who authorize such warrants.
The law holds that police should knock and announce themselves, except in special circumstances and when they have approval from a magistrate, says Miller Shealy, assistant law professor at the Charleston School of Law in South Carolina.
They don't need a no-knock warrant if changing circumstances give them reason to barge in, he says.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ock14_ST_N.htm
Contributing: Barnett and Alongi also report for The Greenville (S.C.) NewsHoplophobia is funny
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February 14th, 2011, 01:35 PM #2
Re: No-Knock Warrants
This was posted a little while back IIRC... Frankly, I don't know how I feel about it. If someone comes busting in my door without knocking, I will grab the nearest gun and start shooting, because I did not do anything to warrant entrance of police personnel, so I will assume you are suspects trying to B&E. This is one of the risks of entering un-announced. I don't know if you are police, or murderers (or both... but I digress). But on the other hand, if you have a known suspect in a home, announcing your presence isn't the smartest idea, as it tips them off...
So, I don't know... if they get the right house, it may not be bad. If you get the wrong house, it could be a huge CF...III%
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February 14th, 2011, 01:43 PM #3Grand Member
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Re: No-Knock Warrants
This is a repost, however I will reply to the no knock part. No knock warrants are for high risk searches. The Police have to tell a judge what is high risk about the search. Guns, other weapons, alarms , dogs ect. . That leaves alot open to interpitation! The guy in this video grabbed a golf club. unfortunately it also looks like a sword untill the head of the club becomes visible.
Aggies Coach Really ??? Take off the tin foil bro.
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February 14th, 2011, 01:49 PM #4
Re: No-Knock Warrants
If you as a private citizen shot a man holding a golfclub that you thought was a sword, chances are, you'd be charged with manslaughter, because you didn't properly identify the threat. But the police are allowed to shoot and get away with it, because they're professionals.
Rules are written in the stone,
Break the rules and you get no bones,
all you get is ridicule, laughter,
and a trip to the house of pain.
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February 14th, 2011, 01:54 PM #5
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February 14th, 2011, 01:59 PM #6
Re: No-Knock Warrants
Well, in "No Knock" the police are announcing themselves as they break the door down. The alternative is to knock on the door announce who you are and give the occupants a chance to answer the door, or grab a gun, or dump their stash.
In these matters the police should consider the safety of innocent civilians first. Way too many times the police make mistakes that cost lives.
I feel the police should be required to meet a high level of criteria that both ensures they are at the correct residence, and at the same time ensures the safety of any innocent occupants before they are issued a "No Knock" warrant.
Whatever happened to shields and flash bangs for higher risk entries? Or are those tools limited to SWAT use?Toujours prêt
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February 14th, 2011, 02:00 PM #7
Re: No-Knock Warrants
I know what you're saying, but if you think about it, we as citizens are some how held to a higher standard when defending ourselves than the paid professionals are. They're the ones with all the training on making split second decisions paid for with our money. But if you or I were to shoot someone in the same way, obviously not inside another person's home, we'd be crucified.
Maybe the first guy through the door should be using less than lethals, and if that fails to put the guy down, then the guys behind him back him up. Police the entire way up the command chain should be held 100% accountable, PERSONALLY, if they conduct a raid like that on the wrong address and someone is injured or killed.Rules are written in the stone,
Break the rules and you get no bones,
all you get is ridicule, laughter,
and a trip to the house of pain.
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February 14th, 2011, 02:13 PM #8
Re: No-Knock Warrants
I still have never seen, heard, nor found any illicit substance, in any quantity, that's anywhere near as dangerous as adrenaline junkies, in full military armor kicking down residential doors and opening fire.
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“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”
~Samuel Adams
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
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February 14th, 2011, 02:16 PM #9
Re: No-Knock Warrants
Oh, without a doubt. That's how it should be. Being entrusted with more power, should mean you are held to a higher standard. People trust, look up to, and sometimes admire you. This is where, I believe, so much of the generalized "hatred" derives from. More often than not, they get away with things we can't, or ever would. All this shows, is that corruption is rampant, and if you have power, the rules are different for you...
(generally speaking...)
Maybe the first guy through the door should be using less than lethals, and if that fails to put the guy down, then the guys behind him back him up. Police the entire way up the command chain should be held 100% accountable, PERSONALLY, if they conduct a raid like that on the wrong address and someone is injured or killed.
It's hairy, for sure...
Like I said, if I'm in the bedroom, and I hear my front door get busted in, what will my reaction be? I know I'm completely innocent, and have nothing to fear, so I assume it's bad guys. So I grab my gun, and take up home defense mode. Now, the entering police see me posted up, and assess me as a threat, thus killing me (eventually).. and potentially my family. Innocent lives easily lost because of a misunderstanding. Sad though to ponder...Last edited by NikeBauer21; February 14th, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
III%
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February 14th, 2011, 02:20 PM #10Grand Member
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Re: No-Knock Warrants
How this could be viewed by any court as not being unreasonable is just further proof that we’ve been lost for a very, very long time.
The fourth doesn’t say the right to be safe in your home from unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated unless the gov. thinks you’re a scumbag. The fourth is supposed to guarantee that right regardless, and any issued warrants must be executed accordingly.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
No knock warrants IMO place an unnecessary burden on the citizen to be required to decide in an instant whether they are about to be harmed or injured. But since officer safety trumps peasant safety I’m wrong and always will be wrong until we collectively grow some stones and take back our country.FUCK BIDEN
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