Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    In the proper gun a .38 Special can be more powerful than a 9mm. In a S&W, Ruger, or other heavy framed gun the .38spl can be loaded up to .357mag levels.

    A "special" version of the .38 S&W Special called the .38-44 High Velocity exceeded 9mm loads. It was a hot loaded .38 Spl developed for a .44 caliber framed S&W handgun. Other manufacturers followed through with their own version of the .38-44 HV cartridge and guns.

    If your dedication to a cartridge is solely based on "power" - you have a lot to learn about guns, cartridges, and ballistics. There is more to a cartridge/gun than just energy levels.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by victory View Post
    Actually, the 147gr variety of modern 9mm defensive loads is about as good as it gets. They expand reliably and penetrate deep. You guys are working off of 20 year old data.

    Justin is right on this one. Properly loaded with modern hollowpoints, a 38 is as good as anything (other than the lack of capacity)

    And the m&s stuff is BS, is not grounded in medical science and in no way reflects reality.

    456 - Wild catted any round can be made faster/better. So can be said of the 38spl round but factory and popularity wise the 9mm is used more. Smaller just as potent if not more so and more capacity. By the way the Glock does come in longer barrels 6" and longer.

    Both have there fan base and the 38spl in 2/4" revolvers are becoming more popular because of CC options. But I don't think it will ever be as popular as the 9mm, years ago here in the states the 38spl was king. But that was yesterday and yesterdays gone.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    [quote]There is more to a cartridge/gun than just energy levels.[/QUOTE]

    Indeed. "energy" is a bull shit term coined by the ammo industry to whip us into a frenzy. And a good job it does.

    Penetration/velocity/weight. The more the merrier.

    As was stated earlier, handguns are poor stoppers, be it .380 or .45. You're depending on a CNS shot or psychological trauma to stop some one if you shoot them with a handgun.

    So carrying a rifle is your best best. However, the 2.5 inch S& W .500 would be a step in the right.direction.
    Selling off a a sizeable Spyderco collection here

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Bob View Post
    You are way oversimplifying. Especially if you are going by the subjective feel of the round being fired. Don't forget, with a 9mm semi-auto you have the mass of the slide adding to the felt recoil. As to "on paper", foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle can often be misleading when it comes to actual terminal ballistics.
    Wait, what? I thought that the mass of the slide absorbed the recoil?

    ETA: Let me rephrase that. The mass of the slide should lower the perceived recoil by lengthening the time in which the energy is transferred to the hand.
    Last edited by bac0nfat; February 15th, 2011 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Neko456 View Post
    456 - Wild catted any round can be made faster/better. So can be said of the 38spl round but factory and popularity wise the 9mm is used more. Smaller just as potent if not more so and more capacity. By the way the Glock does come in longer barrels 6" and longer.

    Both have there fan base and the 38spl in 2/4" revolvers are becoming more popular because of CC options. But I don't think it will ever be as popular as the 9mm, years ago here in the states the 38spl was king. But that was yesterday and yesterdays gone.
    The only Glocks with 6 inch barrels are the 17L and the 24, both of let which are discontinued. If any one has one for sale I'd like it very much.
    Selling off a a sizeable Spyderco collection here

  6. #16
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Neko456 View Post
    456 - Wild catted any round can be made faster/better. So can be said of the 38spl round but factory and popularity wise the 9mm is used more. Smaller just as potent if not more so and more capacity. By the way the Glock does come in longer barrels 6" and longer.

    Both have there fan base and the 38spl in 2/4" revolvers are becoming more popular because of CC options. But I don't think it will ever be as popular as the 9mm, years ago here in the states the 38spl was king. But that was yesterday and yesterdays gone.
    You don't need a wildcat round, you just need a properly designed projectile. For example, look at the penetration and expansion data for the 38 special Corbon DPX load. The difference between that and anything else in an acceptable duty caliber will be negligible.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    You still have to say that 9mm is used far more then 38spl now days in Law enforcement and personal protection. The 38 spl is used as a 2nd gun or off duty or CC but most do not carry the 38 spl as the primary gun.

    The reason of course is why carry 5-6 or 7 38spl when you can carry 11-13-15 r 17 rounds of 9mm that produce similar ballistic. Agreed 2 decent hits are better then 10 misses but whats the odds of that. Just principle wise the 9mm makes a lot of sense over a 38spl platform. IMO

    Round for round I don't see much difference until you compare the platforms/guns.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    you don't need to argue that point with me. With the negligible differences in the terminal effects of common duty loads, capacity is clearly king.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyGunslinger View Post
    Im talking factory loads and velocities. Im in no way bashing the 38, I like the 158 gr SWC +P "Chicago" load, and carried it in my model 66 smith.
    I know you can't go by paper but the 9's velocity and energy is greater.
    The new 147 grain loads in HST +P and Gold Dot +P are noted as very good now, not like the old subsonic crap that was out in the 90's. Yes if you handload you can load the 38 hotter than a 9mm. Marshall and Sanow show the 9mm with a higher one shot stopping rate as well. I know many here will discredit M&S but it can't be total bullshit. http://www.firearmstactical.com/mars...l-analysis.htm
    If you would like to read an analysis of the Marshall-Sanow reports here is one: http://www.firearmstactical.com/mars...l-analysis.htm


    As to the .38 compared to the 9mm, I doubt that either is optimal, but neither is pitiful. I often carry Buffalo Bore .38+P loads, these are a very soft 158 gr lead hollow point at over 1000 fps. I believe this is as capable of a one shot stop as any 9mm. However, were I shooting Winchester white box I'd rather have the 9mm than the remarkably anemic .38 loads. 9mm has always been a high pressure load, even a hundred year old Luger will handle hot loads, 9s are typically pretty high pressure loads.

    One of the advantages of the .38 in a revolver is that they can be loaded down for practice and the pistol will still function. Lead bullets as slow as 700 fps are used by the bushel for target and plinking. There loads will not prove terribly effective in a gun fight, although I'd prefer not to prove this with my skin. 9mms on the other hand have to cycle the slide so are not generally loaded with extremely light loads. So it is not surprising to find the weakest 9mm is stouter than the weakest .38; big deal if you carry a .38 load it with good ammo and you have at least the equivalent of the 9MM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: 38 Special Vs 9mm Luger ??

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyGunslinger View Post
    Im talking factory loads and velocities. Im in no way bashing the 38, I like the 158 gr SWC +P "Chicago" load, and carried it in my model 66 smith.
    Please educate me, what's the term "Chicago load" mean?
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.

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