Multiple purchases?

[orangehole]

Are there any problems with buying a few guns (3 or 4) within a short period. As a collector I have the oppurtunity to purchase some pistols at a very good price but do not want to cause alarm or do anything illegal. I know there are no problems in general but are multiple purchases within a short period (say 3 firearms in 1-2 week) place you on a list?

[JayBell]

FFLs are required by law to report multiple handgun purchases to the ATF.
suspicious purchases are investigated by the ATF, so yes, you CAN make a list.
suspicious = 4 glock 19s in one day
not suspicious = high dollar custom 1911, a WWII p38, a WWI luger, a SW Model 10 Victory all in one day.

SOME atf agents can tell the difference between a collectors gun, versus "I'm buyin fo da hood, aight?", but some cannot.

multiple purchase counts as more than one handgun in a 5 business day period.

dont worry, i rarely purchased multiple handguns at one time, but when i did, I never got a visit.
Several of my friends had though, and the FFL got a call first, THEN they got a visit.
they just want to make sure you arent selling to gangs and such.

keep your receipts, be prepared for questions, aand NEVER BUT NEVER let them inside your home!
Always meet on the porch, or such, but be prepared to simply explain your purchase.
its simple, and nothing to fear.

[LorDiego01]

NEVER BUT NEVER let them inside your home!

Words of extreme wisdom my friend!

[orangehole]

Thanks for the info Jaybell. So there should be no problem if my FFL holds the guns and the actual purchase is spaced out at least 5 days apart.

[Frenchy]

The only time you have to worry about multiple gun purchase right now, is if you intend them to be "straw purchases". Meaning you are buying them to sell, trade or give to other people who should not have guns or cant purchase them for themselves.
You could buy ten guns of varied calibers and makers in one day if you could afford it. Many people buy guns as part of an estate sale and get multiple guns transfered to them as FFL purchases with all the papers. Some times as they say "a deal is too good to let pass".
My humble opinion is that you should buy a gun, shoot with it a while, then look at what else you want later, but there are people who want it all now... Many buy guns then realize they are not satisfied with their purchase, they sell and buy more. Although you can take this route, I am pretty sure the BATF would look into a person who buys and sells on a regular basis and wonder why they have no licence or permit to do so. From my understanding, if you buy 20 guns in an estate sale, and sell a few during the year, you do are not classified as a person who "deals" in firearms. but if you buy one or 2 then sell one and buy an other one every month just to sell it again, you are looked at as a sales point and need to have a FFL to do so legally.

[aubie515]

If you purchase more than 1 pistol from the same gun shop in a 5 day period...the gun shop must complete a form to the ATF. I have purchased multiple pistols on the same day...it's not a big deal...I don't need to do anything differently...it's the gun shop that completes the form.

[phillyd2]

keep your receipts, be prepared for questions, aand NEVER BUT NEVER let them inside your home!

Always meet on the porch, or such, but be prepared to simply explain your purchase. its simple, and nothing to fear.

OK advice except for the answering questions part. Just because they ask does not mean you must answer. Many times we voluntary give them way to much power.

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

[JayBell]

this is indeed true, why voluntarily support a mini witch hunt on you because you were flush with cash one day, and decided to splurge....

then again, simply producing the guns(or proof of disposition) if they ask can mean the difference between a wasted afternoon in cuffs, and having your house torn apart with a search warrant, all guns confiscated so they "check" them, etc, or a "thanks sir, have a nice day"

just a little story for ya...froma real world perspective on this type of ATF annoyance.

guy I know who moved to AZ was in the habit of buying pistols....lots of pistols...he was very finicky, had lots of spare cash at the time, and would regularly buy a pistol, go a shoot it a few times, and take it back to the FFL and trade it in on something else.
Sometimes hed do this 3 times in 2 weeks, or more.
he never actually OWNED at any one time more than 3 pistols.

well, after 58 pistols in 48 weeks, he got a visit from the ATF, this is after they talked to the FFL, who related what he did, and ho finicky he was.

the guy met the 2 agents on his porch, with a folder of his receipts, and the 3 pistols he currently owned.

about 1/5 of the way thru the folder, and monotonous recitation of "Yeah, I bought this, but didn't like the sights, so i traded it in on this one, but the grip angle sucked on that, so i traded it in on this, but the edges were sharp, so i trade that on this, but the safety stuck on that, so I traded it on..." the one agent wearily said "Sir...thanks for your time, sorry to have bothered you, have a nice day"
and they left, never to return.

no fuss no muss, all they did was make sure he wasn't supplying soem local gangbanger with pistols...all they see are buy reports, not returns:-)

a little truthful explanation of his buying habits simply wore thier butts out, and no harm done.

on the other hand, be quietly hostile, clam up, claim the 5th, and they may end run your 4th with a warrant.

Sure volunteer as little as possible, dont let them in the house so they can peer around for "plain view" curiosity, answer only direct questions(ask for specific clarification on vague fishing type), and remember, lying to a Fed agent is a felony.
If you wish, ask to have your lawyer meet with you and them.


otherwise, even *I* would feel secure talking to these folks, hell, i've had enuff byplay when simply working with Agents or inspectors at my FFLs place for yearly inspections and such, they arent all dicks:-)

just my .02 from having to deal with the agents, 99% of what they do deals with Alcohol (imagine all day having to measure and remeasure a liquid that changes volume with the temperature), half of these jokers cant find a serial # on a revolver, or accurately identify the maker, or even what the gun is, or how to make them safe to handle.

I'm no fan of the ATF myself, but sometimes a simple explanation saves the 2am doorkicking

[IceFire]

If you purchase more than 1 pistol from the same gun shop in a 5 day period...the gun shop must complete a form to the ATF. I have purchased multiple pistols on the same day...it's not a big deal...I don't need to do anything differently...it's the gun shop that completes the form.

I have my own way around that one....such as occured last Saturday...Went in looking for a new gun for concealed carry (I'm SHORT, so this is a REAL challenge), found one that I liked (Kel-Tec P3AT), but wanted a different finish (hard chrome)...ordered it. Spotted the 75th Anniversary Walthers PPK...fondled....er...handled it a bit....put it on layaway. Ordered the 3" 1911 subcompact for DH's Christmas present. DH finds carbine he likes....put it on layaway. Wednesday, pick up Kel-Tec. Layaways are MINE, but will fish them out at intervals, no hassles, no raised eyebrows. Meanwhile, if I find something ELSE I like, put it on layaway, too! And, if I change my mind about a layaway, they just put it back, and apply what I had paid on it to one of my OTEHR layaways!

[Reichpapers]

So how does it work if I want to sell a buddy of mine 5 pistols. We go in to an FFL to have the background check done. Does he still file a multiple sales form for me transfering the guns tio my buddy?