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  1. #1341
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...n-regulations/

    December 7, 2011 1:44 PM

    Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

    By
    Sharyl Attkisson

    Guns recovered by ATF Agents (Credit: CBS)

    Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.
    PICTURES: ATF "Gunwalking" scandal timeline

    In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

    ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

    On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

    "Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

    On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

    This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

    The Gun Dealers' Quandary

    Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.

    Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

    Read the email

    In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

    Read the email

    ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."

    Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

    "I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

    "It's like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back," says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. "It's a circular way of thinking."

    The Justice Department and ATF declined to comment. ATF officials mentioned in this report did not respond to requests from CBS News to speak with them.

    The "Demand Letter 3" Debate

    The two sides in the gun debate have long clashed over whether gun dealers should have to report multiple rifle sales. On one side, ATF officials argue that a large number of semi-automatic, high-caliber rifles from the U.S. are being used by violent cartels in Mexico. They believe more reporting requirements would help ATF crack down. On the other side, gun rights advocates say that's unconstitutional, and would not make a difference in Mexican cartel crimes.

    Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic, greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable magazine.

    On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially by drug gangs."

    Reaction

    Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

    On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us.

    "In light of the evidence, the Justice Department's refusal to answer questions about the role Operation Fast and Furious was supposed to play in advancing new firearms regulations is simply unacceptable," Rep. Issa told CBS News.

  2. #1342
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    So, proof of our suspicions. Neat, isn't it? How every single thing we determined months ago is proving 100% true? So... I would say everythjng else we surmised is also true. And how I wish it wasnt.

    Assisting one's enemies in a war... Treason.
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you... but believe me, it's on the damned list.

  3. #1343
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    Neat indeed!
    We have before us another in a long train of abuses. Yet one more demonstration why if America is to survive she must down-size the government. The nature of power only goes to feed the misdeeds such as we have seen in this scandal.

    Washington forewarned of the dangers of government: "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

    It is force! It is a loaded gun pointed at your head if you do not submit and obey. That is what we have entrusted government to have the power to do to us.

    Knowing what we now know, is it reasonable to feel comfortable with the likes of such federal goons as the ATF, FBI and countless others of over equipped and insanely armed militarized "civilian police agencies" to confront you and me, citizen?

    I think not. I reject the premise which calls for their very existence.

  4. #1344
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    The Holder hearing has been on live for several hours today. It can be found here. He keeps digging himself a deeper hole.

    http://www.c-span.org/Events/Atty-Ge...s/10737426112/

  5. #1345
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF


  6. #1346
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...playmates.html

    Wednesday, December 7, 2011
    Denny & Kenny, Gunwalker playmates, appreciate each other. AZ DOJ discusses Dennis Wagner, press bitches & the Grassley reponse. Email implicates Holder Chief of Staff Grindler in full knowledge of Grassley lie letter.
    The other day we learned that Kenny Melson played duplicitous with the Issa committee when he acted the "What, me Gunwalker?" fool with his own "modified, limited hangout" when we noted this email to his Gunwalker playmate Denny Burke provided by the White House in the religiously observed, and now enshrined, Friday Night Docu-dump --

    From: Melson, Kenneth E. (ATF)
    Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 5:52 PM To: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Subject: Grassley
    Dennis: I just got back from the Interpol meeting and wanted to thank you for your help on the Grassley response and for your work on Fast and Furious. Ken


    Thanks to emails provided to Sipsey Street from an unknown benefactor, now we know what Denny said back to Kenny:

    From: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    To: Melson, Kenneth E. (ATF)
    Sent: 2/3/2011 8:05:28 PM
    Subject: RE: Grassley
    You are welcome. Tremendous investigation. Your folks were solid throughout. It is having a huge impact.
    I am so personally outraged by Senator Grassley' falsehoods. It is one of the lowest acts I have ever seen in politics.


    Ahem, well, let's let history be the judge of THAT.

    We also have, over the same electronic transom, these emails, provided in no particular order by the source, of individuals in the Phoenix, Arizona, US Attorney's Office discussing the Grassley response, and press bitches of the cover-up artists at play. Pdf posted here.


    From: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 6:51 PM
    To: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Subject: Re: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap

    Masterful by the gun lobby. They ghost write Grassley' letter and then snooker reporters like Wagner to write abt ATF connected to Terry' murder, so no one writes abt why its legal to buy 30 AK-47s and not even report it. Just brilliant.




    From: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 06:06 PM
    TO: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Subject: RE: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    I thought you had called him, and I asked if he had talked to you. He said he hadn't. Which I guess is technically not a lie if it was a vm. Ridiculous tactic for one of their best reporters.




    From: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:05 PM
    To: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Subject: Re: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    Can't believe he frickin' called asking if we had probs w his story aft the vm I left him. He needs to stop being cute.




    From: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 06:01 PM
    To: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Subject: RE: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    I just had roughly the same conversation with Wagner, who was calling to see if we had any problems with his story. I explained that we did, and told him what I told Anglen, who had apparently passed on what I said but noted it was just on background. Should I give him the same Cunningham-crafted response about Grassley allegation being categorically false as "source close to the investigation"?

    I told him that ATF was told about the Jan. 2010 purchase several days after the fact, and that we didn't knowingly let any guns get to Mexico (although it's obvious some did).

    He mentioned that some of his ATF agent sources have issues with letting suspected straw buyers hand off the weapons at all. That they should have been stopped and "interviewed" about the purchases, essentially before they committed a crime. I don't know what to make of that. But seems like a whole other can of worms with ATF hassling gun buyers who are, at the time of said hassling, within their rights. Not my swim lane, though, just passing it on.




    From: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:24 PM
    To: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Subject: Re: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    Do it. Thx.



    From: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 04:17 PM
    To: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Subject: RE: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    Dennis,
    Do you have any sense of when this might go out? I just got a call from LA Times Reporter wanting to know what's up with the Republic and Wash Post stories, and the Grassley letter. I walked her through what was wrong with the Grassley letter, same as I did with Anglen. And she got if. But she needs a source to pin it to.
    If you give me the high sign for "source close to the investigation" I will, but makes me very nervous with this very adequate push back already in the pipeline.
    Robbie



    From: Burke, Dennis (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:38 AM
    To: Hernandez, Rachel (USAAZ); Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ) ; Hurley, Emory (USAAZ); Cunningham, Patrick (USAAZ); Pimsner, David (USAAZ); Evans, John (USAAZ) 3; Figueroa, Jesse (USAAZ); Scheel, Ann (USAAZ); Tarango, Manuel (USAAZ)
    Subject: Re: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    I sent her Pat' lingo demanding to include it.



    From: Hernandez, Rachel (USAAZ)
    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 01:29 PM
    To: Sherwood, Robert (USAAZ) ; Hurley, Emory (USAAZ); Cunningham, Patrick (USAAZ); Burke, Dennis (USAAZ); Pimsner, David (USAAZ); Evans, John (USAAZ) 3; Figueroa, Jesse (USAAZ); Scheel, Ann (USAAZ); Tarango, Manuel (USAAZ)
    Subject: RE: Draft response to Grassley letters; please review and comment asap


    Dennis. Do you want us to get in touch with Faith with this addition? Or have you been in touch? R.


    Finally, we have this gem from Gary Grindler, Holder's Chief of Staff. Grindler was appointed COS effective 17 January 2911. He replace Kevin Ohlson, a career appointee. Prior to that Grindler served as Acting Deputy Attorney General from 5 February 2010 after the resignation of DAG David Ogdene, who left, according to press accounts at the time, over "philosophical differences" with Eric Holder. Grindler joined the DOJ in 2009 as Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Criminal Division and was Lanny Breuer's deputy. He is reported to have been very familiar with Fast and Furious:



    Here Grindler is discussing the Grassley letter response, something that Holder claims he had no input into:


    From: Grindler, Gary (OAG)
    To: Monaco, Lisa (ODAG)
    Sent: 2/3/2011 11:31:42 AM
    Subject: Letter to ATF from Grassley

    I suggest that someone in ODAG review the ATF's response to Grassley's letter dated 1/31/2011 before it is finalized.
    Gary

    It strains credulity to believe that Grindler would not discuss this with Eric Holder. We will find out today if the Judiciary Committee calls him on it.
    Posted by Dutchman6 at 6:25 PM

  7. #1347
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...st-before.html

    Thursday, December 8, 2011
    Isn't that what they say just before they throw you under the bus? "If they meant it, Carney would have said it."
    Eric Holder Bus Tour, 2011, Official Logo. The administration friendly TPM Muckraker site says: "Obama Has ‘Full Confidence’ In Eric Holder Ahead Of ‘Fast And Furious’ Hearing."

    While House Republicans gear up to grill Attorney General Eric Holder about what-he-knew-when about ATF’s botched Operation Fast and Furious at a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Thursday, the White House is signaling they’re standing by the nation’s top law enforcement officer. “As the President has made clear, he believes Eric Holder is an excellent Attorney General who has his full confidence,” White House spokesman Eric Schultz said in a statement to TPM on Wednesday. . . On Wednesday, Grassley called on Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who heads DOJ’s Criminal Division, to step down because he knew of the Bush-era “gun walking” even though DOJ denied in a Feb. 4, 2011 letter that ATF would ever walk guns. A Justice Department spokeswoman said Holder is standing by Breuer. “Assistant Attorney General Breuer has acknowledged his mistake in not making - and therefore not alerting Department leadership to - a connection between the allegations made about Operation Fast and Furious and the unacceptable tactics used years earlier in Operation Wide Receiver,” Tracy Schmaler said in a statement. “He has acknowledged that mistake to Congress and to the Attorney General, who continues to have confidence in Assistant Attorney General’s Breuer ability to lead the Criminal Division.” Holder has accused politicians of playing “gotcha” games, called Fast and Furious “flawed in concept, as well as in execution” and accused Tucker Carlson’s Daily Caller of being “behind” the calls for his resignation because they’ve been running a nearly daily tally of Republican congressman who have asked for him to step down. According to the Daily Caller’s count, 52 Republican members of Congress and two Republican Senators are calling on Holder to step down, though there’s been no evidence presented so far that shows he knew about the tactics used in Fast and Furious before whistleblowers went public (he also doesn’t recall hearing about the existence of the operation itself, though some weekly briefings documents addressed to him mention it in passing). The GOP presidential field has also entered the fray, with four of them (Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann and Jon Huntsman) calling for him to step aside. The latest signal from the White House: ain’t gonna happen. “The Attorney General has said repeatedly that fighting criminal activity along the Southwest Border - including the illegal trafficking of guns to Mexico has been and is a top priority of the Department,” Schultz said in a statement to TPM. “The Attorney General has also made clear that he takes the allegations that have been raised about the operation very seriously and that is why he asked the Inspector General to investigate the matter and directed the issuance of policy guidance clarifying DOJ policy against gunwalking.”

    So Holder stands behind Breuer and Obama stands behind Holder. Yeah, okay, but whose fly is open and whose pants are down around his ankles? On Capitol Hill Wednesday, Sipsey Street can report that these rumors swirled: 1. Holder would resign that day to avoid the hearing; 2. Holder would hold out until the traditional bad news day of Friday to cash in with a "voluntary resignation" that had been demanded by an increasingly nervous White House; 3. Breuer would leave instead of Holder to see if they could save the AG; 4. Holder would desperately cling to his office while firing Breuer; 5. And, last night, that the White House would cling to Holder at Justice because they need him there to maintain the fiction that they still control events because: a. They rest of the rats would desert the Titanic if they thought it was a "save yourselves" moment -- that is, that Holder leaving would be a breaking-of-the-dam moment and the entire truth would flood out as conspirators sought their own deals; or, b. Obama is incapable of admitting error and Holder is being kept on board despite the best contrary political advice (and some of this from high roller donors) that he is getting to try to stanch the bleeding with the re-election coming up. Another source said of Obama's reported pledge to Holder: "Yeah, right. That's what they say just before they throw you under the bus." It is important, the source noted, that the denial did not come from White House press secretary Jay Carney, but rather from scandal deflection expert Schultz. "If they meant it," he said, "Carney would have said it." The hearing, of course, is today. I'll be there early with a smile on my face and a song in my heart.
    Posted by Dutchman6 at 2:15 AM

  8. #1348
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    and so now we have a web page on fast and furious. Issa is a businessman and a savvy one at that. I think this has merit but I have one nagging question; When do the prosecutions start?

    http://issues.oversight.house.gov/fa...ious/live.html

  9. #1349
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    Sandy Adams is just skewering Holder right now.. She just nailed him asking if these guns would have walked even if the directive was implemented.. He basically refused to answer.

  10. #1350
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    Default Re: Project Gun-walker and the ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by twoguns View Post
    and so now we have a web page on fast and furious. Issa is a businessman and a savvy one at that. I think this has merit but I have one nagging question; When do the prosecutions start?

    http://issues.oversight.house.gov/fa...ious/live.html
    I agree two gun, when are the prosecutions going to start? A long path ahead for that to come to fruition. The sad part, is that even if this holder thug is convicted, the incompetant in the white house, before he leaves office, will pardon him.

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