Do court facilities have to check your OC'd firearm? Possible 18Pa.C.S.§913 anomaly

[mjf]

Staff note:
This was a side discussion from the below thread:
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-sheriffs.html (Spirited OC discussion with Westmoreland Co. Sheriffs)

This topic deserves it's own thread so I moved the relevant discussion here.
~Pa. Patriot

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

The firearm storage provisions within 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 913 are pretty oddly written:

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous
weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the
building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or
similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary
checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section
6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons
that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual
checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a
dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt.
Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as
required under subsection (d).

It's quite odd that sections "6106(b) or 6109" are mentioned with regard to firearms. Essentially, someone could read it as: "The firearm can only be checked if carried under section 6106(b) or 6109. Weapons other than firearms may also be stored within the lockers."

Remember, 6106(b) is persons exempt from licensing and 6109 refers to the licensing procedure itself. So, I wonder, would a Sheriff be legally out of line if he refused to store a pistol from an OCer who won't provide a LTCF or LEO ID? I don't think that Sheriff would be legally wrong.

[XD45]

The firearm storage provisions within 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 913 are pretty oddly written:



It's quite odd that sections "6106(b) or 6109" are mentioned with regard to firearms. Essentially, someone could read it as: "The firearm can only be checked if carried under section 6106(b) or 6109. Weapons other than firearms may also be stored within the lockers."

To dumb it down even a bit further your saying they might not have to check them if your not carrying under a LTCF?


ETA: Is it just me or is it LE like those that make you want to OC?

[LittleRedToyota]

To dumb it down even a bit further your saying they might not have to check them if your not carrying under a LTCF?

that is actually the way the statute literally reads.

i have no idea how it would be applied if a court refused to check an open carried gun, and it ever went to court.

[mjf]

To dumb it down even a bit further your saying they might not have to check them if your not carrying under a LTCF?


ETA: Is it just me or is it LE like those that make you want to OC?

Well, as far as I read the statues, maybe.... Both 6106(b), which is those who are exempt from licensing, and section 6109 are explicitly and exclusively mentioned within that statute.

To reiterate:

lockers or
similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary
checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section
6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons
that are not otherwise prohibited by law.

Storage for firearms is only required for, "firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109." Now, an OCer who presents a LTCF would fulfill the requirement. Now, other dangerous weapons may be stored as well, "or for the checking of other dangerous weapons." Other means NOT firearms.

[XD45]

that is actually the way the statute literally reads.

i have no idea how it would be applied if a court refused to check an open carried gun, and it ever went to court.

That's what I thought I was reading, would be an interesting case. Any takers?

[gnbrotz]

That's what I thought I was reading, would be an interesting case. Any takers?

I doubt you will ever see this challenged. If they will not check my firearm because I am not carrying "under section 6106(b) or 6109", then they must do so because my firearm would most definitely fall under "other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law".

[mjf]

I doubt you will ever see this challenged. If they will not check my firearm because I am not carrying "under section 6106(b) or 6109", then they must do so because my firearm would most definitely fall under "other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law".

Not sure about that, it reads, "persons carrying firearms under section
6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons
that are not otherwise prohibited by law."

The argument would be, "other" does not include firearms. Firearms are covered when carried under 6106(b) or 6109.

"firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons"

Other dangerous weapons, not being firearms... After all, there's a reason they listed the licensing statutes.

[Statkowski]

... lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law.

Two separate categories of items needing checking are here:

a. firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109

b. other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law

If an OCed firearm does not fall under the first category, then it definitely falls under the second. Since an OCed firearm is not carried under 6106(b) or 6109, then it's other.

[gnbrotz]

The argument would be, "other" does not include firearms. Firearms are covered when carried under 6106(b) or 6109.

If you're going to take that position, then when I am OC "under 6106(b) or 6109", I am exempt from licensing because I am not engaged in any specifically listed activity which requires me to be licensed.

[mjf]

Two separate categories of items needing checking are here:

a. firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109

b. other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law

If an OCed firearm does not fall under the first category, then it definitely falls under the second. Since an OCed firearm is not carried under 6106(b) or 6109, then it's other.

No, other is exclusive in its context and it refers to an other weapon, not being a firearm. How is "OC" another weapon under B?