Stolen wallet: ltcf trouble.

[bac0nfat]

Good idea. I didn't check the UFA before asking this next question; is a photo copy sufficient if asked for the LTCF when CC'ing (or just breathing while armed in Philly )?

(a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.

The way I read it, I have the option to produce the LTCF at a preliminary hearing if I am arrested. It says "shall" but does not say that it is a criminal offense if you don't. If there is no crime committed, then there should be no arrest, right? And even if there is, I can still produce the LTCF at my preliminary hearing, right? Also, what exactly is a "lawful demand"?

ETA: Of course, there is another option to carrying a photocopy. If you can find someone with a card printer, you could make a copy that looks identical to the real thing.

[phillykev]

The way I read it, I have the option to produce the LTCF at a preliminary hearing if I am arrested.

If you don't present the license upon lawful demand you are presumed to be non-licensed and may therefore be arrested. Sure, you can present the license at a preliminary hearing. Assuming you can get someone to bring it to you since you aren't carrying it. And hope you aren't arrested on a Friday, could be a day or two in lockup before you get that hearing.

[chivvalry]

If you don't present the license upon lawful demand you are presumed to be non-licensed and may therefore be arrested. Sure, you can present the license at a preliminary hearing. Assuming you can get someone to bring it to you since you aren't carrying it. And hope you aren't arrested on a Friday, could be a day or two in lockup before you get that hearing.

You will also get your firearm confiscated and spend months if not years attempting to get it back.

lawful demand is a sore spot... again, appears to be open to beat cop interpretation....

[bac0nfat]

Arrested for what? What's the offense?

[soberbyker]

Arrested for what? What's the offense?

You're kidding, right? The police can arrest you for whatever they want and call it disorderly conduct, the catch all for everything they can't otherwise explain, it may not be a lawful arrest, but I've heard some stories about "let the courts sort it out". Right or wrong, just or unjust, by all means if you have a ton of money and time to fight it then go for it.

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[phillykev]

Arrested for what? What's the offense?

Carrying a firearm concealed without a license. Sure, you may have a license, but if you aren't carrying it, there is a "rebuttable presumption of non-licensure". You'll get to rebutt that presumption after you get booked and bailed out or someone brings your license to you.

[chivvalry]

Carrying a firearm concealed without a license. Sure, you may have a license, but if you aren't carrying it, there is a "rebuttable presumption of non-licensure". You'll get to rebutt that presumption after you get booked and bailed out or someone brings your license to you.

...and then they yank your license for "character" since you had a run in with the law that got you arrested and locked up.

[bac0nfat]

I know, I know, you guys are right that they will arrest you anyway. I'm just trying to decipher the word of the law. For the record, I do always carry my LTCF (copy), whether I'm CCing or OCing or not carrying at all. Its laminated and looks good, and so far no one has questioned it.

[soberbyker]

I know, I know, you guys are right that they will arrest you anyway. I'm just trying to decipher the word of the law. For the record, I do always carry my LTCF (copy), whether I'm CCing or OCing or not carrying at all. Its laminated and looks good, and so far no one has questioned it.

Unfortunately, in PA "law" and the understanding of it, often do not go hand in hand when it comes to firearms and the LTCF by those in charge of upholding/adhering to those laws.
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[timdennis]

Sounds like it would be easier to get a non-res permit from a reciprocity state and carry with that until you come up for renewal.

You know,thats a pretty good idea. Also its shameful that a state in which you are not a resident is more accomodating then the Sheriff of your own county.