Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Act 235 & New Jersey

    I am presently enrolled in Act 235 class, some of the guys are drivers for an armored car service and they are completing the course so they can get out and do deliveries with their firearm. The question came up about N.J. apparently they go over from PA into NJ make a couple stops and then back to PA. All they do is swap magazines to get the hollow points out of the handgun.
    So I asked our instructor if I could try for a job in NJ and he said no they let them in for a few stops but the business is based in PA. If I want to work somewhere in NJ I would have to get certified in NJ. Does all this sound right?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    Your Pa ACT 235 cert is ONLY good in Pa. Your ACT 235 instructor should have explained that.

    Check the requirements for cert in NJ.
    "Having a gun and thinking you are armed is like having a piano and thinking you are a musician" Col. Jeff Cooper (U.S.M.C. Ret.)
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    The guys go over to NJ everyday, are the police just looking the other way?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    No, they just haven't been stopped yet.

    Act 235 is good in PA only!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by jerryg View Post
    I am presently enrolled in Act 235 class, some of the guys are drivers for an armored car service and they are completing the course so they can get out and do deliveries with their firearm. The question came up about N.J. apparently they go over from PA into NJ make a couple stops and then back to PA. All they do is swap magazines to get the hollow points out of the handgun.
    So I asked our instructor if I could try for a job in NJ and he said no they let them in for a few stops but the business is based in PA. If I want to work somewhere in NJ I would have to get certified in NJ. Does all this sound right?
    If they still have the HP rounds in the car they are in violation of NJ law. If they are loose, in a mag or in a chamber, it does not matter.

    Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.

    N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

    (2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

    Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
    N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

    Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

    1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
    2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
    3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
    4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

    Having a spare mag with HP rounds is not one of the exceptions.

    And that is just for the bullets. The guns themselves are not legal in NJ unless they have a NJ carry permit and have <16 round mags
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html
    Transporting through NJ is legal if the guns are unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment if they are starting and ending their trip in PA. But I would not want to be the one explaining that to a NJ State Trooper.
    Last edited by Coops; January 24th, 2011 at 10:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    Armored transport companies are covered under a federal exemption when traveling out of their home state. This was put into effect in 2001 or 2002. It mandates that as long as a person is certified in their home state they can work on a truck out of state. It also mandates that there be a annual firearms qualification. I dont have the exact wording of the law but I have been a supervisor in Erie since 2002. We routinely send employees out of state to work and most branches work in multi state areas. Our branch in particular covers western PA, parts of NY, and Eastern OH. Found copy of law see below post.
    Last edited by etenp99; January 24th, 2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason: new info

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    United States Code Annotated
    Title 15. Commerce & Trade
    Chapter 85--Armored Car Industry Reciprocity
    s 5901. Findings

    Congress finds that--

    (1) the distribution of goods and services to consumers in the United States requires the free flow of currency, bullion, securities, food stamps, and other items of unusual value in interstate commerce;
    (2) the armored car industry transports and protects such items in interstate commerce, including daily transportation of currency and food stamps valued at more than $1,000,000,000;

    (3) armored car crew members are often subject to armed attack by individuals attempting to steal such items;

    (4) to protect themselves and the items they transport, such crew members are armed with weapons;

    (5) various States require both weapons training and a criminal record background check before licensing a crew member to carry a weapon; and

    (6) there is a need for each State to reciprocally accept weapons licenses of other States for armored car crew members to assure the free and safe transport of valuable items in interstate commerce.

    s 5902. State reciprocity of weapons licenses issued to armored car company crew members

    (a) In general

    If an armored car crew member employed by an armored car company--

    (1) has in effect a license issued by the appropriate State agency (in the State in which such member is primarily employed by such company) to carry a weapon while acting in the services of such company in that State, and such State agency meets the minimum requirements under subsection (b); and
    (2) has met all other applicable requirements to act as an armored car crew member in the State in which such member is primarily employed by such company,

    then such crew member shall be entitled to lawfully carry any weapon to which such license relates and function as an armored car crew member in any State while such member is acting in the service of such company.

    (b) Minimum State requirements

    A State agency meets the minimum State requirements of this subsection if--

    (1) in issuing an initial weapons license to an armored car crew member described in subsection (a), the agency determines to its satisfaction that--
    (A) the crew member has received classroom and range training in weapons safety and marksmanship during the current year from a qualified instructor for each weapon that the crew member will be licensed to carry; and
    (B) the receipt or possession of a weapon by the crew member would not violate Federal law, determined on the basis of a criminal record background check conducted during the current year;

    (2) in issuing a renewal of a weapons license to an armored car crew member described in subsection (a), the agency determines to its satisfaction that--
    (A) the crew member has received continuing training in weapons safety and marksmanship from a qualified instructor for each weapon that the crew member is licensed to carry; and
    (B) the receipt or possession of a weapon by the crew member would not violate Federal law, as determined by the agency; and

    (3) in issuing a weapons license under paragraph (1) or paragraph (2), as the case may be--
    (A) the agency issues such license for a period not to exceed 2 years; or
    (B) the agency issues such license for a period not to exceed 5 years in the case of a State that enacted a State law before October 1, 1996, that provides for the issuance of an initial weapons license or a renewal of a weapons license, as the case may be, for a period not to exceed 5 years.

    s 5903. Relation to other laws

    This chapter shall supersede any provision of State law (or the law of any political subdivision of a State) that is inconsistent with this chapter.
    s 5904. Definitions

    As used in this chapter:

    (1) The term "armored car crew member" means an individual who provides protection for goods transported by an armored car company.
    (2) The term "armored car company" means a company--
    (A) subject to regulation under subchapter I of chapter 135 of Title 49; and
    (B) is [FN1] registered under chapter 139 of such title, in order to engage in the business of transporting and protecting currency, bullion, securities, precious metals, food stamps, and other articles of unusual value in interstate commerce.

    (3) The term "State" means any State of the United States or the District of Columbia

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    My act 235 instructor indicated that NJ does not recognize this federal law in the past and that he does not expect them to comply in the future. They will go after you. I have asked this question of several armored car carriers based in PA that do business in NJ and the have all answered the same: they do not allow their carriers who are not NJ licensed to carry from PA to NJ. I have called the NJ State Police to ask then that same question and they have said they are not aware of this Federal Law and do not intend to abide by it. That, my friend is the risk of doing business in the Garden State. I have also asked this of a NJ certified instructor and he said "don't do it"!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by Coops View Post
    Transporting through NJ is legal if the guns are unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment if they are starting and ending their trip in PA.
    Not according to NJ law it's not. It's 5-7 years in jail. You may only possess a handgun on your own property, in your own place of business, or to and from range etc. And I don't think federal FOPA will protect you driving from PA into NJ and back to PA.

    There may be specific state and/or federal coverage for armed guards though (I'm guessing those are the posts after yours that I have not read yet).

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Act 235 & New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by etenp99 View Post
    United States Code Annotated
    Title 15. Commerce & Trade
    Chapter 85--Armored Car Industry Reciprocity
    s 5901. Findings
    ------SNIP-------
    So we have a national armored car reciprocity act, but we can't have a national carry reciprocity act? I wonder how much diatribe and rhetoric went around Congress about this one. I wonder if Ms. Jackson Lee wanted a 24 hour notification for armored cars coming across state lines, and maybe a registry for every armored car employee.

    Was the libertarian "we give no ground on our rights even if it's a backdoor into furthering our cause" front up in arms about national reciprocity for armored carriers trampling all over state's sovereignty?

    This is why we can't have nice things.

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