Act 235 & New Jersey

[Glock9mm]

The states can make a state law any tougher than they want over a Fed law. For example, is the Fed says you can have now buy only stick mag tommy guns full auto without a class 3 for some historic reason, a state can limit that to only semi auto, but cannot turn around and include the drum mags if the Fed said no to them origionally. (this is merely an example, please don't go buy full auto tommys and reference me)

I'm still stuck on the comment about NJ state troopers blatantly saying they'd ignore the federal law that gives armored car guards the ability to carry across state borders.
Does this tell you anything about the arrogance on the part of Jersey LEO's and how far they'll go to "protect" their irrational way of life?
Absolutely disgrace in my opinion, especially because the state trooper basically went on record as saying, "Yeah, we don't recognize that federal law, and we'll violate your rights regardless."
Damn shame.
J.

[tacticalreload]

The states can make a state law any tougher than they want over a Fed law. For example, is the Fed says you can have now buy only stick mag tommy guns full auto without a class 3 for some historic reason, a state can limit that to only semi auto, but cannot turn around and include the drum mags if the Fed said no to them origionally. (this is merely an example, please don't go buy full auto tommys and reference me)

It's not always that simple. This Federal law is in place specifically to allow something that would otherwise not be legal. Purpose of it is to require states to recognize other states' licenses. Although weak, arguments can be made in favor of the Federal law based on the 14th Amendment (depending on how strictly you define "life, liberty, or property"). Furthermore, google "Federal preemption" and the "supremacy clause".

Those things aside, I'm fairly certain that the Congress would most likely say that they have power in this matter because it deals specifically with restrictions put on interstate commerce.

[HiredGoon]

Curious... what is the NJ equivalent of a PA Act 235 certification?

[tl_3237]

Curious... what is the NJ equivalent of a PA Act 235 certification?

An NJ 'permit to carry a handgun' (ref NJS 2C:58-4)

2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns
a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

All permits to carry handguns shall expire 2 years from the date of issuance or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his employment by the company occurring prior thereto whichever is earlier in time, and they may thereafter be renewed every 2 years in the same manner and subject to the same conditions as in the case of original applications.

b. Application forms. All applications for permits to carry handguns, and all applications for renewal of such permits, shall be made on the forms prescribed by the superintendent. Each application shall set forth the full name, date of birth, sex, residence, occupation, place of business or employment, and physical description of the applicant, and such other information as the superintendent may prescribe for the determination of the applicant's eligibility for a permit and for the proper enforcement of this chapter. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath, and shall be indorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least 3 years preceding the date of application, and who shall certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior.

c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.

No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.

d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00.

e. Appeals from denial of applications. Any person aggrieved by the denial by the chief police officer or the superintendent of approval for a permit to carry a handgun may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he resides or in any county in which he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident, by filing a written request for such a hearing within 30 days of the denial. Copies of the request shall be served upon the superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he is a resident of this State. The hearing shall be held within 30 days of the filing of the request, and no formal pleading or filing fee shall be required. Appeals from the determination at such a hearing shall be in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State.

If the superintendent or chief police officer approves an application and the Superior Court denies the application and refuses to issue a permit, the applicant may appeal such denial in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State.

f. Revocation of permits. Any permit issued under this section shall be void at such time as the holder thereof becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., and the holder of such a void permit shall immediately surrender the permit to the superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority.

Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing upon notice to the holder, if the court finds that the holder is no longer qualified for the issuance of such a permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the superintendent or any citizen may apply to the court at any time for the revocation of any permit issued pursuant to this section.

L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:58-4, eff. Sept. 1, 1979. Amended by L.1979, c. 179, s. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 1979; L.1981, c. 135, s. 1.

[Swarner793]

I worked for Shields over 18 years ago. I was working out of an office in Plains Twp, near the Casino. I never had to work armed in NJ. Just went there to do the hiring paperwork. Then, I would just accompany the Tech. He did all the work.

Be safe ( and easy).

Scott

[tacticalreload]

An NJ 'permit to carry a handgun' (ref NJS 2C:58-4)

Actually, it's the NJ SORA (security officer registration act).

[tl_3237]

Actually, it's the NJ SORA (security officer registration act).

Title 45, 19A-1 et seq (aka SORA) deals with the registration/certification of security companies and employees but it does not provide for possession of lethal weapons.

The 2C:58-4 statute that I provided previously (and its derived administrative code Title 13 Chapter 54) is NJ's closest parallel to Pa's "Lethal Weapons Training Act" (Act 235) as it applies to armored car guards. The license that the guards receive is as any other NJ permit to carry with restrictions.

[Tommydesigns]

This is the response I got back from them today.

Our office where all our vans and trucks leaves from is in Moorestown, NJ.
We have routes that go PA, NJ, DE, MD and NY.

The reason we require the PA 235 is so that new hires can work the PA
routes while the 4-6 month process of applying for a NJ permit takes
place. Once a guard received a NJ permit he can legally carry a weapon in
all 50 states.

If you are interested, please submit your resume, but please note that
without a current PA 235 we cannot hire any applicant.

[ungawa]

This is the response I got back from them today.

Our office where all our vans and trucks leaves from is in Moorestown, NJ.
We have routes that go PA, NJ, DE, MD and NY.

The reason we require the PA 235 is so that new hires can work the PA
routes while the 4-6 month process of applying for a NJ permit takes
place. Once a guard received a NJ permit he can legally carry a weapon in
all 50 states.

If you are interested, please submit your resume, but please note that
without a current PA 235 we cannot hire any applicant.

Really? That seems very confusing.

[Glock9mm]

Really? That seems very confusing.

Seems unfair also. If the NJ permit is good in PA, but the PA permit isn't good enough for NJ? I think someone should right that wrong!