1st time Class 3 buyer - UZI or Mac

[kmb1719]

I am looking to buy my first Class 3 items legally.
I need advice, however.

UZI or SWD M11 (w/ Lage upper eventually)

If UZI, then what make and what should I look for as far as the conversion?
I know that I want a registered receiver, but do I want a Group Ind, IMI model A or B, Vector, etc ??

If a MAC style gun, Mac or SWD M11/9 ?? What should I look for ? How dependable are these as long time shooters and investments?

Finally I need a supressor for a ruger 10/22, sig mosquito and maybe a conversion kit for whatever class 3 smg I get. Any advice ?

Thank you very much for any advice, opinions or suggestions.

[Mtdew]

I am looking to buy my first Class 3 items legally.
I need advice, however.

UZI or SWD M11 (w/ Lage upper eventually)

If UZI, then what make and what should I look for as far as the conversion?
I know that I want a registered receiver, but do I want a Group Ind, IMI model A or B, Vector, etc ??

If a MAC style gun, Mac or SWD M11/9 ?? What should I look for ? How dependable are these as long time shooters and investments?

Finally I need a supressor for a ruger 10/22, sig mosquito and maybe a conversion kit for whatever class 3 smg I get. Any advice ?

Thank you very much for any advice, opinions or suggestions.

Dont buy for investment, The market (what's actually selling) is flat.


The "Mac" series of guns is going to cost about 1/2 of a RR Uzi.

As to what brand Uzi, I would not pay more for a converted IMI. The vector group guns work just as well. Uzi's are built like a tank and usually keep on running forever. spare parts used to be cheap and everywhere but are now getting a but more scarce. Caliber conversions are availible for 45acp and 22RF.

May I suggest you try one before you buy. they are very different in terms of size, weight, and ROF. Though the 11/nine with the lage upper is very similar to the uzi

The m10's are a much heavier built gun than the M11's or the SWD M11/nine. I assume you mean the SWD M11/nine since the M11(PS&RPB) & M11a1(SWD) are chambered in 380. The SWD M11/nine is the only varient chambered in 9mm

If you run +p+ on the M11/nine you will crack the rear receiver welds

If you run either the M10 or M11/nine with a worn out or non existant buffer you will break the rear receiver welds

As for M10's Powder springs guns are considered the best, followed by RPB, Jersy arms works, SWD* and lastly the original (as in un modified) Stephensville, TX** guns

* SWD never registered any M10's they bought up registered frames after 1986 and completed them into the standard M10 configuration. 99% of the NIB TX MAC's currrently for sale are in fact SWD rebuilt (the cobray logo and M11/nine box are a dead giveaway.) These guns are just as good as the PS & RPB guns

** Original Stephensville TX guns are considered the redheaded stepchild of the MAC line. There are many non standard features to them. They are the ones w/ the reputation for the welds failing as they were only tack welded thay are also rare in original form since allmost all have been converted to standard specs and re-welded

The M10 beats out the M11/nine in resistance to receiver failure, as it was originally desigined w/ the intention of being a military weapon. The m11/nine was alyays a commercial venture for public consumption

currently there are Lage uppers for both the 11/nine and the M10(9 & 45)


if you really want to research it

go to http://www.uzitalk.net/forums/index.php
they have forms dedicated to both the Uzi and "Mac" series


As for the supressor how much do you want to spend? I'd sugest a Tac65 since it offers a lot of value for the price. second would be the SWR warlock or spectre.

[Guns4Fun]

Not much more to say--mtdew covered it well.

Do not buy FA for an investment!!! Buy because you want a new toy and want to shoot it.

Me, i'd get a Vector Uzi. Why, you know that they are up to full MG spec. IMI's were conversions and unless you know what you are looking for, they might not be up to full MG spec.

Like already covered, an m11/9 is a completly different animal than an uzi. ROF is very fast (close to double). Yes you can get a Lage upper to slow it down but there is a 4-5 month waiting list---i am on it.

I own an m11/9--m10/9 and an uzi---for me, the uzi is the best, m10/9 next then the m11. Vector is making the .22 conversion kits again for the uzi---Richard (Lage) has a waiting list for his m11-.22---i am #200 and he has no date as to when it might go into production.

As for suppressors, the Tac-65 is a good can and so is the gemtech outback II. The yhm mite is getting some good praise but i do not own one of them to say for sure.

[bogey1]

do you think the f/a macs will ever come down in price? i still see them for well over 3000.00 3500.00 is the cheapest i've seen so far..

[Mtdew]

do you think the f/a macs will ever come down in price? i still see them for well over 3000.00 3500.00 is the cheapest i've seen so far..

Heh....

No

[bogey1]

Heh....

No

im so pissed off at myself, i could of bought one last year for 2300.00 oh well, if i land a good job soon screw it, im getting one. before they get to the 4000.00 price..

[Guns4Fun]

do you think the f/a macs will ever come down in price? i still see them for well over 3000.00 3500.00 is the cheapest i've seen so far..

I know this is getting a little off topic to the OP's question but---i don't think you have been looking in the right places. I have seen them posted in the 3k range--even 2900. I know i said i'd get the uzi first---did and still would---but i think the m11 is an up and coming choice because of the aftermarket support. Once Mr Lage gets his max 11's in stock (no 4-5 month waiting list) and the max .22 in full production, i think the m11's will go up in value / desire. The m11's are pretty much the cheapest SMG on the market right now and once people realize thier potential (aftermarket support) the demand / desire will go up---just my .02. But again, i still say don't buy a SMG for an investment---buy because you want a toy---the market is kinda flat right now and it doesn't seem like things are moving like they were just 6-8 months ago---and if you bought for an investment and needed to cash in, right now would not really be the time to do it---It seems to be a buyers market right now. I bought my NIB Vector Uzi 8 months ago for 7200--it seems that most that are selling now are sub 7k---so, if i had bought it for an investment and needed the cash now, i'd have lost money.

[bogey1]

I know this is getting a little off topic to the OP's question but---i don't think you have been looking in the right places. I have seen them posted in the 3k range--even 2900. I know i said i'd get the uzi first---did and still would---but i think the m11 is an up and coming choice because of the aftermarket support. Once Mr Lage gets his max 11's in stock (no 4-5 month waiting list) and the max .22 in full production, i think the m11's will go up in value / desire. The m11's are pretty much the cheapest SMG on the market right now and once people realize thier potential (aftermarket support) the demand / desire will go up---just my .02. But again, i still say don't buy a SMG for an investment---buy because you want a toy---the market is kinda flat right now and it doesn't seem like things are moving like they were just 6-8 months ago---and if you bought for an investment and needed to cash in, right now would not really be the time to do it---It seems to be a buyers market right now. I bought my NIB Vector Uzi 8 months ago for 7200--it seems that most that are selling now are sub 7k---so, if i had bought it for an investment and needed the cash now, i'd have lost money.

your right. i have seen the uzi drop in price, but the mac still seems to be hanging around.... what web sites do you recommend?

[kmb1719]

I think I have finally decided on an UZI (probably Vector or Group Industries)
Is there anything I should look for in a Vector UZI ?
Any serial number ranges to stay away from ?
What about this heat treating warping that I have heard of ?

[Guns4Fun]

I think I have finally decided on an UZI (probably Vector or Group Industries)
Is there anything I should look for in a Vector UZI ?
Any serial number ranges to stay away from ?
What about this heat treating warping that I have heard of ?

I think you are making a good choice---the m11/9 by itself is just a bullet hose. The Uzi is a more "usable" fun SMG as it comes stock.

If you pick up a Vector, there will be very little to look out for. They have been heat treat and are up to full SMG spec. I bought mine NIB a few month ago and it has run fantastic since the first trigger pull. If you go with the uzi, i'd look into buying a spare parts kit---just to have layin around. As far as i know, all Vectors were built on Group recievers. I am no expert--keep reading on uzi talk. I bought mine from David Spiwak--he is a reputable dealer and i figured if i had any problems he'd work them out---i did not. I didn't spend a whole lot of time doing research on them because i knew i wanted a Vector--not an imi conversion or a bolt gun and i trusted my dealer.

To the other poster as where to look
subguns
sturm
ar15.com
david spiwak
jb arms
uzi talk

the list goes on and on----i recently saw an m11/9 in allentown listed for 3100 and they'd pay the first stamp for out of state sales---so, i'm sure they'd let it go in state for 2900. I forget which board it was on---just keep looking on all of them---or post a wtb for what you are willing to spend. Just remember when they first bought an m11/9 prior to 86, they were what $3-400. Maybe someone bought one new then and would love to get 3k now. You never know, right?