Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    On Saturday March 5, I will be providing a one day seminar on disarms and weapon retention. The location will be Kim's Martial Arts & Fitness in Brentwood (just outside Pittsburgh, for you who are not local). The course description will follow.

    The objective is to give people some hands-on experience, sufficient that people can see these techniques do work, and can be learned by people of only average physical ability. These are NOT the exclusive provence of "warriors" and ninjas and the like, and may well be the one thing that gives a CCW holder the time he or she needs to actually use the firearm they carry. Conveying an understanding of where the limits are found is a primary course objective.

    The course is sponsored by the Pennsylvania Firearms Development Corporation. Information about the course may be found posted at www.fireinstitute.org

    PeteG

    -------- Course Description Follows -------------


    PRINCIPLES OF WEAPONS RETENTION AND DISARMS

    Date and Time: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:00 a.m. to about 5:00 p.m.

    Cost: $100 per person, payable upon enrollment. (Note: there is no minimum enrollment requirement; this course will proceed so long as anybody at all enrolls.)

    Place: Kim’s Martial Arts & Fitness, 3606 Brownsville Road (South Hills of Pittsburgh).

    General Description: This is a one day (seven hour) seminar designed to illustrate the problems, issues and techniques associated with retaining a weapon against attempts by another party to take control of one’s weapon and, conversely, to illustrate methods of disarming an individual. We will be using hand guns as our weapon of choice in illustrating these principles and basis techniques, but will also discuss the application of these techniques to contact distance weapons (clubs, edged weapons, stabbing weapons).

    The course includes straightforward explanations and illustrations of the following:
    • The legal implications of disarming an attacker, and how it may play out in court.
    • The difference between a “gun grab” and a disarm.
    • Recognizing lines of attack.
    • The role of movement, body position and leverage.
    • The mechanics of disarms and retention.
    • What sorts of movements are required to defeat or effect “gun grabs” and disarms.
    • Holsters and equipment (solutions to retention or invitations to trouble).


    There are serious legal consequences attendant upon carrying a gun and either having it taken from us, or disarming another – presumably and attacker – and then using that weapon to harm someone. This is why we include a review of Pennsylvania law applicable when one: (a) carries a firearm in a holster (concealed or openly) and is not trained to ward off an attempt by another to take control of that weapon; or (b) disarms another individual and then uses that other individual’s weapon.

    Although we will demonstrate and offer instruction on how to execute specific techniques, this is not a training course designed to make anyone competent to either disarm an attacker or retain control of one’s weapon. The movement and techniques involved simply cannot be “learned” in a day; those who anticipate becoming proficient in these methods after attending a one-day seminar have unrealistic expectations. This is a familiarization course, designed to show participants what is involved, so they realize they can do this, see what will be involved in actually learning these techniques, and make an educated decision whether to pursue actual training in this subject.

    Prerequisites: None. Physical exertion is moderate; one can expect to be pushed, grabbed and fall down , and to push and grab others. There will be no throwing or strikes, and no actual fighting. No martial arts background is required. If one happens to have martial arts training, the instructor will integrate the martial arts experience of individual participants on a student-by-student basis.

    Equipment Requirements: An inert training gun (“red gun,” “blue gun,” etc.), a holster to fit that particular training gun, and a substantial belt to support the holster. PFDC can supply such training guns for those who do not have their own, but our supply of specific firearms may not be sufficient such that we can supply everyone with a replica of the hand gun they carry.

    Attire: Wear loose-fitting, comfortable clothing. No jewelry (watches, earrings, studs, etc.) may be worn during the seminar. No shoes are permitted in the training (mat) area, so expect to go bare-foot or wear socks.

    Instructor: Peter Georgiades. He is a graduate of the Operational Skills Group Contact Weapons Defense Instructor course, and is ranked NiDan (2nd Dan) in Kodokan Judo (medalist at USJA Senior National Championships, Masters Division, 2005 and 2007; Gold Medalist, USJA Pa. State Open Championships 2010 and 2011 - Masters Division, 100+ kg.). He is a Graduate of the Gunsite Training Academy L.E. Carbine Instructor Certification Course, Marksman’s Enterprise 3 day instructor courses for carbine and pistol and numerous instructor clinics with Giles Stock and through IALEFI. Certified to instruct by the NRA in rifle, pistol, shotgun and personal protection, and the State of Arizona (certificate No. 8769268). Member (IALEFI).

    DRIVING DIRECTIONS and ENROLLMENT FORMS can be downloaded at www.fireinstitute.org.

    For additional information call 412/ 381-8035

    Note: This seminar does not involve the handling of any functional firearms or edged weapons. All exercises are performed using inert training guns and training props. No firearms, ammunition, edged weapons or sharp implements are permitted in the training area. There are lockers where such articles may be stored on premises during the course, but participants are responsible for bringing their own padlock.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Somewhere else, Pennsylvania
    (Cambria County)
    Posts
    2,685
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    I'm scheduled to work that day, but I'm going to see if I can take off for professional development.

    I don't have a blue gun but IIRC, you have a G17 or two on hand?

    I would perfer to use the training barrel I have, however I expect that is out of the question as it would both involve a 'real' gun, and I wouldn't want to remove the front sight and/or trigger guard. Nevertheless, I figured I'd ask rather than show up without it only to find that we could have used it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    I'm scheduled to work that day, but I'm going to see if I can take off for professional development.

    I don't have a blue gun but IIRC, you have a G17 or two on hand?

    I would perfer to use the training barrel I have, however I expect that is out of the question as it would both involve a 'real' gun, and I wouldn't want to remove the front sight and/or trigger guard. Nevertheless, I figured I'd ask rather than show up without it only to find that we could have used it.
    We have a Glock 17.

    I have ground the trigger guards off all the training pistols this year. The retention techniques are not a problem, but the disarms can amputate a digit if caught in a trigger guard, even on a plastic gun. In the past we have avoided injury by telling people to keep thier fingers outside the trigger guards; but why take a chance that somebody forgets?

    I consider guns equipped with clearly marked training barrels to be "inert," because they are. Bring it along, and we will check it out. It is, after all, your finger that will be at risk.

    If nothing else, people will likely find it something of interest to consider for thier own (hopefully) continued training.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    25,055
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    I highly recommend this seminar.

    I attended the first one along with several other forum members and was very pleased with the class.

    If you're looking for some "tough guy" horsecrap, go elsewhere - this is serious stuff. Whether you carry openly, or concealed, this class is well worth the $100 and a few hours of your time.

    A big "thumbs up" to PeteG for continuing to put his time into holding these seminars.
    Central PA PAFOA Summer Group Shoot! THIS SATURDAY!!! July 20th - Click here for info

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Monroeville, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,348
    Rep Power
    646298

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    My enrollment is in the mail.
    "There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    Quote Originally Posted by eXceLon View Post
    My enrollment is in the mail.
    Great! Glad to have you.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    As of today (Tuesday Jan. 25, 2011) we have six slots left.

    Peter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Squirrel Hill, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    799
    Rep Power
    1069

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    This class is a good excuse for me to buy a blue G19. You recommend cutting off the trigger guard and front sight? Anything else?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    Quote Originally Posted by offshorebear View Post
    This class is a good excuse for me to buy a blue G19. You recommend cutting off the trigger guard and front sight? Anything else?
    The idea is that the replica will be wrenched from your hands repeatedly. Therefore, any sharp edges should be rounded off, to avoid cutting you.

    I actually recommend you leave the front and rear sights on, because you will have to obtain a sight picture from time-to-time (simulating recovery to a firing position). But I suggest you round off any sharp edges with a file.

    The trigger guard is the really dangerous part. If one's finger is inside the trigger guard during a disarm, one could really get hurt. You can keep the trigger guard on there if you really don't want to go cutting on a new toy, but then it is important to never have your finger inside the trigger guard during a disarm. Given that it only takes one error to break or remove a finger, it seems to me the risk is not worth keeping the replica intact.

    Cut the guard completely off, and round off any remaining sharp edges. The "trigger" will still be there, so the feel of holding the gun with your finger touching the face of the trigger will not change.

    If you need a replica for some other purpose that would include having a trigger guard, buy another one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,231
    Rep Power
    737992

    Default Re: Principles of Weapon Retention and Disarms

    For those who do not have an inert training pistol and want one, L.A. Police Gear is having a closeout on Blackhawk brand trining guns. They are $23.24 each, which is a very good price. Grey or yellow (color is generally irrelevant for training purposes).

    Peter
    (Posted on Wed. Feb. 23rd)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Fundamentals of Firearm Retention and Disarms - F.I.R.E. Institute
    By gnbrotz in forum Training, Tactics & Competition
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2011, 01:07 PM
  2. DISARMS AND RETENTION SEMINAR
    By PeteG in forum Training Courses
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 17th, 2010, 12:26 AM
  3. More thoughts on weapon retention
    By mercop in forum Training, Tactics & Competition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: February 18th, 2010, 10:24 PM
  4. Edged Weapons & Disarms
    By PeteG in forum General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 16th, 2009, 12:04 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2008, 11:56 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops