Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Hey guys,
    I'm sure this is one of the 'ad naseum' topics, but I'd like to hear your opinions. I have a TRL-1 mounted on my DDM4 at 12 oclock in front of the front sight, to me this is a no brainer as the weapon basically requires two hands to operate.

    So I am setting up a dedicated HD/nightstand handgun and am leaning back and forth between putting a TRL-1 on the gun or using my Streamlight Scorpion handheld. I know the basic reasons for and against and, to me, they are basically a wash.

    What do you run and, more importantly, why?
    Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Amen. **PROUD III**

  2. #2
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    On a HD gun a light is a no brainer.

    I recall I took "Tactics I" through The FIRE Inst. The instructor had asked us one by one what we kept at home on our night stand. I replied "A pistol, a light, and a phone." His reply was "And how many hands do you have?"

    Add into that opening a door, holding a child, guiding a spouse, or any other number of things one might need to do and suddenly the WML becomes the default option.

    Ive done several courses and shot matches in the dark. The WML shines (pun intended) in the dark whenever you might need to do anything with your hands OR even just trying to shoot and work a light. Lets keep in mind that any handheld light techniques you might use (and practice !) are all esentially compromising your grip, some more than others.

    What "cons" had you come up with ?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    On a HD gun a light is a no brainer.

    I recall I took "Tactics I" through The FIRE Inst. The instructor had asked us one by one what we kept at home on our night stand. I replied "A pistol, a light, and a phone." His reply was "And how many hands do you have?"

    Add into that opening a door, holding a child, guiding a spouse, or any other number of things one might need to do and suddenly the WML becomes the default option.

    Ive done several courses and shot matches in the dark. The WML shines (pun intended) in the dark whenever you might need to do anything with your hands OR even just trying to shoot and work a light. Lets keep in mind that any handheld light techniques you might use (and practice !) are all esentially compromising your grip, some more than others.

    What "cons" had you come up with ?

    The "cons" are what you make of them in my opinion. The most often refered to is the de facto muzzle sweep that comes with shining the light to identify. I don't really think thats valid though, as a light shown at "low ready" easily illuminates a room. Plus, and I may catch heat for this, but I'm not too worried about muzzle sweeping as long as my trigger finger stays where it should. Like him or not, Gabe Saurez has some really interesting insights on that, FYI.

    Beyond that, I would say white light ND's and 'the bd guy shoots at the light' are the other to main Cons I hear. The first is not a huge concern to me as my best trainer (John Holschen, InSights, 5x NTI champ, quiet professional) has said that tactics used to involve a lot of momentary on/off, but now in the KISS style, he lik a light to stay on, once needed, until the work is done.
    These second I'm not sure about. I can totally see a bad guy snap shooting at the light, and that light will basically always be in my COM and head. I don't know.

    I really do like the idea of a totally free hand though. Theoretically, a mag-lite or the like could be another striking tool.
    Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Amen. **PROUD III**

  4. #4
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by Kb! Bob View Post
    Plus, and I may catch heat for this, but I'm not too worried about muzzle sweeping as long as my trigger finger stays where it should. Like him or not, Gabe Saurez has some really interesting insights on that, FYI.


    He sure has had some interesting thoughts.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by synergy View Post


    He sure has had some interesting thoughts.

    Ha. Yea well ol' Gabe may be a couple bricks short of an outhouse, thats for sure.
    Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Amen. **PROUD III**

  6. #6
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    In a HD situation you have the luxary of stacking the deck however you choose. As such there is nothing saying you can't have both a WML and a hand-held light.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kb! Bob View Post
    The "cons" are what you make of them in my opinion. The most often refered to is the de facto muzzle sweep that comes with shining the light to identify. I don't really think thats valid though, as a light shown at "low ready" easily illuminates a room.
    Exactly. Flashlights typically have to balance 'flood' and 'throw.' The more throw a light has the further you will be able to see with it, but a lot of throw usually comes at the cost of flood, which is the lights ability to illuminate a wider area. WMLs designed for pistols typically don't have a lot of throw, but have heaps of flood... Which makes them ideal for target identification in a room regardless of where you point the light.

    More simply, with a quality pistol specific WML, if you and I stand at opposite ends of my livingroom, I can point the gun behind me, away from you, and be able to tell you how many fingers you are holding up.

    Plus, and I may catch heat for this, but I'm not too worried about muzzle sweeping as long as my trigger finger stays where it should.
    Well, I won't flame you, but it is certainly best to make every honest effort to refrain from pointing guns at things you are not prepared (or don't know if you're prepared) to destroy.

    Beyond that, I would say white light ND's and 'the bd guy shoots at the light' are the other to main Cons I hear. The first is not a huge concern to me as my best trainer (John Holschen, InSights, 5x NTI champ, quiet professional) has said that tactics used to involve a lot of momentary on/off, but now in the KISS style, he lik a light to stay on, once needed, until the work is done.
    Momentary, or constant on? Too many variables to say one method should be the 'go to' way. The trick is being comfortable making 'snap analysis of risk' judgments.

    I can totally see a bad guy snap shooting at the light, and that light will basically always be in my COM and head. I don't know.
    I dunno. Again, lots of variables and options. Staring down the sights and then flicking on the light does not seem like it would frequently be the ideal technique in a HD environment.


    I really do like the idea of a totally free hand though.
    Yep. I have a handheld flashlight close to my gun (with WML) and if I have pockets on when I have to go to these items, the handheld light will go in a pocket (along with a couple other things). Hell, if the conditions are right, I might click the handheld light onto 'constant on' the instant before I throw it as hard as I can at the suspected location of the head of the threat... Flash-Bang? =)

    Theoretically, a mag-lite or the like could be another striking tool.
    Eh, maybe. I'd rather do a muzzle strike than swing around a mag-lite... But, to each their own. It's good to have options.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    In a HD situation you have the luxary of stacking the deck however you choose. As such there is nothing saying you can't have both a WML and a hand-held light.




    Exactly. Flashlights typically have to balance 'flood' and 'throw.' The more throw a light has the further you will be able to see with it, but a lot of throw usually comes at the cost of flood, which is the lights ability to illuminate a wider area. WMLs designed for pistols typically don't have a lot of throw, but have heaps of flood... Which makes them ideal for target identification in a room regardless of where you point the light.

    More simply, with a quality pistol specific WML, if you and I stand at opposite ends of my livingroom, I can point the gun behind me, away from you, and be able to tell you how many fingers you are holding up.

    Well, I won't flame you, but it is certainly best to make every honest effort to refrain from pointing guns at things you are not prepared (or don't know if you're prepared) to destroy.

    Momentary, or constant on? Too many variables to say one method should be the 'go to' way. The trick is being comfortable making 'snap analysis of risk' judgments.

    I dunno. Again, lots of variables and options. Staring down the sights and then flicking on the light does not seem like it would frequently be the ideal technique in a HD environment.


    Yep. I have a handheld flashlight close to my gun (with WML) and if I have pockets on when I have to go to these items, the handheld light will go in a pocket (along with a couple other things). Hell, if the conditions are right, I might click the handheld light onto 'constant on' the instant before I throw it as hard as I can at the suspected location of the head of the threat... Flash-Bang? =)

    Eh, maybe. I'd rather do a muzzle strike than swing around a mag-lite... But, to each their own. It's good to have options.


    Thanks for not killing me about the "muzzle-sweep comment" Let me elaborate on that a little: I try my best not to sweep anything ever, but in reality it does happen. When I holster my pistol in the morning I may sweep my foot, and surely anything or anyone on he first floor of my home below my closet floor. My point is, it happens. My #1 priority is to stay off the trigger until I'm eady to be on it. Plus, its very situational IMO. Currently my kids are very young, so if there is movement in my home and my wife is next to me, chances are good that its an intruder. As my kids get older and move around more on their own, the my process will certainly change at that point.
    Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Amen. **PROUD III**

  8. #8
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    KB- Here's what I'm doing and I'll be clear that I have no formal low-light training. I've kept a surefire hand-held on nightstand next to me for years. I've read/watched videos of various techniques and have taken it with me to range to practice and always felt it looks easier to manage than it really is.

    Several weeks ago I cashed in some Cabelas bucks and bought a TLR-3 for I think $79. Figured it was an inexpensive way to see for myself what a WML can do. I've mounted it and took it around house at night with no one else home and I can see advantages over just hand-held. And even the TLR-3 provides enough flood light to clearly see details in rooms with gun pointed downward or upward. I haven't shot the gun with it on to check reliability (next weekend) so its not officially mounted yet.

    I'll probably shoot with it several times and make it officially part of the HD package. I really do want formal instruction with this though...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    I prefer a hand held light. You will need to illuminate more things than you will need to shoot. When clearing, an issue often encountered is reflection off of things like mirrors and TVs. With a HH light you are more able to "splash" light as you need it.

    Working midnight shift for a long, long time taught me a lot about how to control and manage light. It takes time. This cannot be made up for by owning flashlights.- George

  10. #10
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    Default Re: White Light: Hand held vs. Mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by Palerider View Post
    KB- Here's what I'm doing and I'll be clear that I have no formal low-light training.

    I'll probably shoot with it several times and make it officially part of the HD package. I really do want formal instruction with this though...
    Palerider...have you had some classes on pistol/carbine stuff before (not low-light)?

    There is going to be a killer low light/home defense training opportunity in November, but it's definitely an "advanced" class. http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...read.php?t=961

    That said, there is enough time to get some practice in before then if you really want to make it.

    SouthNarc is doing a similar class in June, too:
    http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...ead.php?t=1014

    Just an FYI...

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