Can you have 25 yd accuracy with cheap factory 9mm ammo and a Glock?

[Delerius]

The Glock is not a target pistol. Personally, I think you are setting the bar a bit too high. I'd start at 25 feet, master it at that range, and then move on to greater distances.

BTW, you need a better target. You should be using a bullseye target that you can focus (aim) at the black. Aim small, miss small.

At 25 ft an acheivable goal is all bullet holes touching each other (where you were aiming of course).

It might not be a true target pistol but you are right. I like shooting from 25 yards because it pushes me to try to be more accurate. Thanks for the idea of getting the bullet holes to touch. I will definitely try that at a closer distance and see how that works.

If you're having trouble "lining up the circles" then you might want to try blacking out your rear dots with a sharpie. If you do it quick the sharpie wipes right off the glass vials so you still have nite sites. I think you'll find a white front and black rear to be way less busy.

Thank you! I just tried the sharpie technique and by sitting here, I can tell this is going to help.

This morning I got a chance and blasted off 40 more rounds with the Berry's 115 gr. One thing I did different was I opened up my stance to be more of a modified weaver. I also paid closer attention to being more limber and how the gun came back down on target after the shot. I had a slight improvement comparing the averages from the targets that I shot on 12-22 and 12-23. This afternoon I'm hoping to get back out to do at least another 40 rounds to see if the sharpie technique helps at all...

[Shawn.L]

I like shooting from 25 yards because it pushes me to try to be more accurate. ...

try this out:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...read.php?t=267

and let us know how it goes

[saleen322]

Being a perfectionist, shooting bullseyes is what I chase after. When it comes to rifles I do pretty darn good but with pistols, It's a whole new game for me since I've decided to really focus on my shots. With the Glock, it's been a love hate relationship with getting the gun as accurate as possible at 25 yards. Even if I don't hit bullseyes I would at least like to have some really nice groupings to work with but even that is hard to achieve. Since there is so many factors that come into play I decided to break the whole equation down into pieces and work on each one separately such as, stance, grip, trigger pull and such.

My question is, how much weight does the bullet have in the equation of accuracy?
Guess what I mean is, if I would have everything perfect, stance, sight, grip, grip tension, trigger pull, how much does the combination of the gun and bullet come into play into hitting dead center?

Can cheap Remington and Federal 115 gr ammo be part to blame for poor groupings?

I ask about the cheap Remington and Federal 115 gr ammo because I have a bunch I'm trying to use up and from the results I've been getting with it, maybe I'm better off putting it away. I've been using the "Rifle and Pistol Insight" http://www.shotgun-insight.com/rAndP...nnerRandP.html to keep track of my results as seen in the photos below. On each target 10 shots were fired so on some I did have some misses. All shots were fired at the 8"x8" target from 25 yards standing with no support.
I have recently started reloading 9mm with Berry's 115 gr and what little testing I have done, I have seen a slight improvement. I also did a quick 30 shell test with some 115 gr Hornady XTP where I was impressed with the groupings but to use these all the time would break the bank so I need to find a cheaper alternative. Tomorrow I'm going to pickup some 124 gr Berry's and give those a try but if anyone has other recommendations, I'm all ears.

I guess I want to believe I can or anyone can tack drive or group cheap factory ammo dead center in a target but right now I'm having a hard time believing that it can be done. I know I have a lot practicing, training and learning to do but I also want to be on the right path to accomplish what I am after...

I agree with the consensus here that most of the issues are shooter correctable but I do want to add that 9mms IMHO are more ammo sensitive than say .45 ACP or .38 specials. Also, just because one brand of ammo costs more doesn’t mean it will shoot better in all pistols. It is like .22s, you just need to try samples until you find what the gun likes. The attached pic is not a Glock but the Springfield has a similar trigger and here are two targets, one shot from a XD and the other from a S&W 952—a target pistol using the same ammo. The XD does pretty good but the sights and trigger on the 952 give it an advantage. I hope this helps.

[Delerius]

I agree with the consensus here that most of the issues are shooter correctable but I do want to add that 9mms IMHO are more ammo sensitive than say .45 ACP or .38 specials. Also, just because one brand of ammo costs more doesn’t mean it will shoot better in all pistols. It is like .22s, you just need to try samples until you find what the gun likes. The attached pic is not a Glock but the Springfield has a similar trigger and here are two targets, one shot from a XD and the other from a S&W 952—a target pistol using the same ammo. The XD does pretty good but the sights and trigger on the 952 give it an advantage. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. I noticed that you use 147 gr. bullet with both of your guns. Is that a load you use all the time? Was there any particular reason that you chosen that load?

[Brick]

If you could put your Glock into a Ransom Rest and shoot test groups, you would be able to find that the gun with virtually any ammo can shoot better than you can.

The Glock is a defensive weapon, not a target gun, but even so I would guess that from a machine rest as above it would yield 3" groups at 25 yards. But since you say you are interested in getting the best accuracy out of your shooting. Then go ahead and find the best ammo for your gun.

But, while you're doing that take the time to learn the basics of marksmanship and their relationships to each other. For example, your grip contributes to having the correct sight alignment and your stance controls whether your pistol returns to the target when recovering from recoil, and how you breathe before you start firing a string of shots determines how much oxygen is available for your eyes to see the sights correctly. So if you really want to learn these skills go to http://bullseyepistol.com/ and look around the site while you are there be sure to read the USAMU Pistol Guide (the link is in the Site Features on the right side) pay special attention to the chapter on "Minimum Arc of Movement". but take the time to read all of it.

If you have any questions ask and we'll try our best to give you a sensible answer.

[Gun]

I have found this beneficial.

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

[saleen322]

Thanks for the info. I noticed that you use 147 gr. bullet with both of your guns. Is that a load you use all the time? Was there any particular reason that you chosen that load?

I tried quite a few loads in my 9s and the 147s consistently performed better at 50 yards than anything else I worked with. Since the bullets cost about the same, I shoot the 147s for the performance. At 25 yards there is not as much a difference but I have groups in the 2.5" to 3" range at 50 yards with the 147s and I have not yet duplicated that with another weight bullet.

[Delerius]

If you could put your Glock into a Ransom Rest and shoot test groups, you would be able to find that the gun with virtually any ammo can shoot better than you can.

The Glock is a defensive weapon, not a target gun, but even so I would guess that from a machine rest as above it would yield 3" groups at 25 yards. But since you say you are interested in getting the best accuracy out of your shooting. Then go ahead and find the best ammo for your gun.

But, while you're doing that take the time to learn the basics of marksmanship and their relationships to each other. For example, your grip contributes to having the correct sight alignment and your stance controls whether your pistol returns to the target when recovering from recoil, and how you breathe before you start firing a string of shots determines how much oxygen is available for your eyes to see the sights correctly. So if you really want to learn these skills go to http://bullseyepistol.com/ and look around the site while you are there be sure to read the USAMU Pistol Guide (the link is in the Site Features on the right side) pay special attention to the chapter on "Minimum Arc of Movement". but take the time to read all of it.

If you have any questions ask and we'll try our best to give you a sensible answer.

I have found this beneficial.

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

Thanks! I have read the USAMU Pistol Guide and have gone back to it for reference. One thing I will do this spring is find a class or a coach to correct my flaws. I'm always looking to improve and even more so with using the Glock.

This afternoon I had time and ran about 80 rounds through the Glock with the having the night sights blacked out. I was really hoping for an improvement but even with them blacked out, the rear sight was still giving me trouble. After I got home the night sight came off and the factory sight went back on so I'm hoping I get some time tomorrow to run some rounds through. I did take a little break from the Glock today since I got to pick my unplanned purchase of a S&W 645. I ran 36 rounds through her and once I get more aquainted, I think we'll have a good partnership. Told my wife today I need one of those Miami Vice jackets now so I can play the part of Sonny Crockett (Don Johnson used a 645 in the 3rd and 4th seasons)

[SCBaldr]

If you want to measure the ammo and/or gun, stick that shit on a rest and see what happens. What's the point though?
Query: Can I load better 9mm Match Ammo than I can buy?
Answer: Yes... Yes I can.
More intelligent Query: Am I a good enough shot to take advantage of the greater consistency of those loads over regular plinking ammo?
Honest Answer: No. Not a snowball's chance in hell. So why worry? When I shoot for score, its the cheapest brass cased 9mm weasel turd ammo I can find. So long as it doesn't fuck up my gun and it goes bang every time, I'm happy. I find the 115 gr. PMC Bronze from Palmettostatearmory.com to perform quite nicely.

[harold63]

As an avid 25 and 50yd. bullseye shooter, I will tell you that the groups a person shoots, foremost, have to do with the skill involved. Cheap ammo does play a role, but it is not as noticeable at a distance of say, 7yds. There are a few obstacles that have to be overcome to get winning groups at 25 and 50yds. Ammo quality falls somewhere near the bottom of the list.

A pistol group is the same as a rifle. 1/2" group at 7yds.= 1" at 14yds.= 2" at 28yds. and so on. If you break it down by numbers, the muzzle of your pistol only has to be 3/100" off center of the centermost part of the X, if you have a 9" pivot (muzzle to wrist with a Glock 19), at 25yds, to print a shot 3" from the center of the X. To print a shot only 1" from the X, you only need to be 1/100" off center. That is roughly the thickness of a business card. So you see, the muzzle literally has to be perfectly lined up with the center of the X to hit it. I call it the X within the X. This is the thing that is hard to do. Main thing with this is, you have to be able to see well. A lot of people just do not have the lamps to see the center of the X 25yds. away. Take a .44 mag., 4" barrell, with a 4 power scope, at 25yds, and your group will look like a 12ga. shotgun slug was shot at the target, that is if you can hold the .44 still enough. Too many variables to overcome before you start considering ammo problems. As far as a Glock goes, I have never seen one print more than 2" from a rest at twenty five yds.

I won't try to tell you how to shoot, but I will say that when you go to the range, try to do something before you go that will curb the adrenaline rush you start to get at just the idea of going. I will usually do a quick 20 min. workout before I go. Also, eat a low glycemic meal about an hour or two before going. Drink water, only. No sugar or caffene. With the caffene, lay off of that all day if you plan on shooting groups that day. If you use alcohol moderately to heavy, you can forget ever being a bullseye shooter. Once you have all this down, then you can start experimenting with ammo and trigger pull rates and what not.