State Constables, the best kept secret in PA.

**Iraqvetwpb** · May 11th, 2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by t1066

I'd call the PCCD and ask to be put on a standby list for the local classes. You can't do it on the CCETS portal anymore, but it is worth a shot. Also, if they decide to add another class, you'll probably be notified first.

I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice. But my understanding is that the firearms certification the PCCD does is only required for court work. Also, by virtue of you being a constable, you are no longer required to get a LTCF.

That said though, if you carry at the polls, and do get involved with an issue, the fact you aren't PCCD certified may be used against you in court. Also, if your polling place is a school, that may muddy the waters even more.

Personally, in your situation, I wouldn't carry at poll duty until after getting certified.

Constables can carry their firearms anywhere where they are legally preforming the duties of constable. It was written this way because of schools. The way the law was written, it is unlawful to carry a firearm in a school, however many polling places are in schools, so that had to be written.

The only problem, and it's not with constables is police, when the law was amended, they did not include police, but I really don't think anyone is going to have a problem with police responding to a call at a school armed.

Also, your office of constable is your weapons permit, you can carry without a permit. Being PCCD certified for firearms is only needed if your working for the courts, in fact you only need to be certified to work for the courts. If your not working for the courts, you don't need to be certified.

But it's kind of a catch 22, if your carrying as a constable, say serving papers for a law firm, and you happen to use your weapon, without having that certification your going to be crucified on the stand.

**twency** · May 11th, 2016, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Iraqvetwpb

Constables can carry their firearms anywhere where they are legally preforming the duties of constable. It was written this way because of schools. The way the law was written, it is unlawful to carry a firearm in a school, however many polling places are in schools, so that had to be written.

The only problem, and it's not with constables is police, when the law was amended, they did not include police, but I really don't think anyone is going to have a problem with police responding to a call at a school armed.

Also, your office of constable is your weapons permit, you can carry without a permit. Being PCCD certified for firearms is only needed if your working for the courts, in fact you only need to be certified to work for the courts. If your not working for the courts, you don't need to be certified.

But it's kind of a catch 22, if your carrying as a constable, say serving papers for a law firm, and you happen to use your weapon, without having that certification your going to be crucified on the stand.

It sure doesn't help that the statutes are ambiguous about constables carrying without certification.

Title 18 seems helpful:

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license. …
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or
their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its
political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

All well and good.

But then you see this in Title 44:

§ 7148. Use of firearms.
The Constables' Education and Training Board, with the review and approval of the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency, shall establish standards for the certification or qualification of constables and deputy constables to carry or use firearms in the performance of any duties.

Oh.

I definitely could see a constable getting thrown under the bus if he had to discharge his firearm (or even just is stopped by a police officer for having it) while performing court or non-court constable duties without firearms certification.

**BenFoo** · May 12th, 2016, 02:16 PM

As there is no formal requirements for badges or uniforms or dress codes....what exactly do people wear when doing constable duties?

Is there a website or location that has PA constable specific items?

**Adam-12** · May 12th, 2016, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by BenFoo

As there is no formal requirements for badges or uniforms or dress codes....what exactly do people wear when doing constable duties?

Is there a website or location that has PA constable specific items?

You can get what you need from uniform shops; the ones that serve cops often serve constables as well. Check with your nearest constables' association (if any): they probably have recommendations on uniform, and it's a good idea to go with that.

The Allegheny County association has detailed guidelines. In practice I often cheated: I had the uniform shop print a windbreaker with "CONSTABLE" across the back, Constable insignias on the shoulders, and something or other on the front--a star shaped like a Constables' badge I believe. When I was too lazy to get in uniform, I would wear black pants and throw the windbreaker on. The uniform is a pain if you have a day job and are liable to serve a warrant or two on your way home.

I did usually wear the bat-belt, BTW. You should have handcuffs and a gun, at minimum, when serving warrants. And if things go south, you'll be very sorry if you didn't have any less-lethal options on hand. I'd hate to have to explain to a jury that I had to shoot the guy, because I didn't have any OC on me.

**BenFoo** · May 12th, 2016, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Adam-12

You can get what you need from uniform shops; the ones that serve cops often serve constables as well. Check with your nearest constables' association (if any): they probably have recommendations on uniform, and it's a good idea to go with that.

The Allegheny County association has detailed guidelines. In practice I often cheated: I had the uniform shop print a windbreaker with "CONSTABLE" across the back, Constable insignias on the shoulders, and something or other on the front--a star shaped like a Constables' badge I believe. When I was too lazy to get in uniform, I would wear black pants and throw the windbreaker on. The uniform is a pain if you have a day job and are liable to serve a warrant or two on your way home.

I did usually wear the bat-belt, BTW. You should have handcuffs and a gun, at minimum, when serving warrants. And if things go south, you'll be very sorry if you didn't have any less-lethal options on hand. I'd hate to have to explain to a jury that I had to shoot the guy, because I didn't have any OC on me.

Is there a more prominent association? I have located 3 online. (2) appear to be statewide and (1) appears to be more localized.

**BenFoo** · May 13th, 2016, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by BenFoo

Is there a more prominent association? I have located 3 online. (2) appear to be statewide and (1) appears to be more localized.

This seems to have garnered a lot of responses. Sore subject?

Also is anyone aware of the duty gun policy if after you qualify and something was wrong with it. Can you use a like/like model if you would update them with the new serial#? Anyone know? Debating right now to buy a 2nd duty gun or 2nd carry gun. Either would get usage. Just dont want to be out a duty gun if/when.

**Adam-12** · May 13th, 2016, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by BenFoo

This seems to have garnered a lot of responses. Sore subject?

It's a hard question. There's the PSCA, the PAFOC, the Commonwealth Constables' Association, the Allegheny County Constables' Association, and probably others. I've belonged to the PAFOC and the Allegheny association. There are some benefits of membership, especially in the one most local to you. But they mostly exist to fuck over the competition. You'll discover, for example, that they all lobby for legislation changes, and almost all of those changes are designed to fuck the competition some way or other. A recent proposal was basically designed to get all the old Constables removed from office. Supposedly because you need to be young and strong to do this job, but REALLY because those old guys get most of the transport business and make lots of money doing it.

Also is anyone aware of the duty gun policy if after you qualify and something was wrong with it. Can you use a like/like model if you would update them with the new serial#? Anyone know? Debating right now to buy a 2nd duty gun or 2nd carry gun. Either would get usage. Just dont want to be out a duty gun if/when.

They will not update their records: the gun you qualify with is the only gun they authorize you to use--and the ammunition you qualified with is the only ammunition they authorize you to use. If you use a different gun or ammo, and get jacked up, they will tell the prosecutor that you were using an unapproved gun/ammo combo and try to make sure you're completely screwed. I've seen Constables stop working for a whole year, until they can recertify on a new gun, for this reason.

So definitely do a backup weapon if you can. The rule is that primary guns have to qualify before backup guns, so if you don't qualify on the first try you may not get the opportunity. If there's a big crowd, and a lot of them are retaking, then you also might not get a chance. I've seen this during basic training; after that I always took the advanced gun course so this was never a problem.

**BenFoo** · May 13th, 2016, 04:34 PM

Also, while perusing the PA Election Code, I found this

Section 1822. Constables; Failure to Perform Duties.--(1822 repealed Oct. 9, 2009, P.L.494, No.49)

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...37/0/0320..PDF

Page 209/254

Would seem to indicate as of 9th October 2009, Constables are no longer required to be present at the polling station.

**BenFoo** · May 13th, 2016, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by BenFoo

Also, while perusing the PA Election Code, I found this

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...37/0/0320..PDF

Page 209/254

Would seem to indicate as of 9th October 2009, Constables are no longer required to be present at the polling station.

§ 7152. Elections.
The constable of a borough, township or ward, or his deputy, shall do all of the following:
(1) Be present at the polling place in each election district of the borough, township or ward at each election during the continuance of each election and while the votes are being counted, for the purpose of preserving the peace.
(2) Serve at all elections.

Which seems to go against this that it references......
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...hoice=suppress

Glad everyone's docs are on the same page

**scruff** · May 14th, 2016, 12:21 AM

I'm taking the advanced firearms class this weekend. We shot the qualifier tonight, since it looks like rain tomorrow morning. All 10 students easily qualified. It's nice being in a class that doesn't get dragged down by guys who need remedial help. This year's advanced class is focusing on CQB training. What a great deal - you could pay $500 for a private class like this, and the state provides the ammo too!