Buyback program takes guns off Pittsburgh streets

[HiredGoon]

Here we go again...

Buyback program takes guns off Pittsburgh streets

By Rick Wills
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, December 19, 2010

Mike Hartle decided it was time to get rid of the two handguns he acquired several years ago to protect himself.

"I have two small kids, ages 4 and 6. I'm just worried about them. They are at the age where they are curious about everything," said Hartle, 39, of Ohio Township.

Hartle was one of dozens of people who showed up Saturday at Pittsburgh's old No. 1 Firehouse on the Boulevard of the Allies to exchange their guns for Giant Eagle gift cards.

By the end of the day, Goods for Guns of Allegheny County had collected 75 guns — an odd assortment of Saturday Night Specials, imposing rifles, even antique black powder and breaktop revolvers.

"You see some of these guns for sale for $1 in Sears catalogs from 1901," said Pittsburgh police Sgt. Tony Viscomi, a Zone 3 officer who has volunteered at the event for years. Yesterday's was the 16th annual.

Under the program, each handgun netted $50 in grocery gift certificates. Long guns brought a $25 gift certificate. Free gun locks and handouts on gun safety were available.

Tim Kanouff of Baden heard about the gun turn-in on television early yesterday.

"It's a great program," said Kanouff, a target-shooting enthusiast and gun collector who turned in a .380 automatic. "This weapon is just no longer safe, and this is a great way to get rid of it and get a little bit back for it."

Under the program, those turning in guns are not asked to identify themselves and are not asked any questions, said Philip Dacey, president of Goods for Guns, which is funded by donations from foundations and individuals.

Dacey does not view the event as anti-gun. "I am a gun guy. I used to go hunting and liked shooting targets," he said.

One gun turned in yesterday was found in the snow, Dacey said. In the past, girlfriends of convicted felons have turned in guns.

"We had one woman who brought in her boyfriend's backpack — with a gun, crack cocaine and $3,800 in cash," Viscomi said.

People still interested in turning in a gun to Goods for Guns of Allegheny County can e-mail goodsforguns@verizon.net.

[MDJschool]

Has anyone ever tried to turn in a gun, receive whatever they were giving away for the buyback, then demanded the police return the gun to its owner per 18 pa.c.s. 6111.1(b)(4), possibly taking it to court under a Pa.R.Crim.P., Rule 588 Motion for Return of Property?

The Pennsylvania State Police and any local law enforcement agency shall make all reasonable efforts to determine the lawful owner of any firearm confiscated or recovered by the Pennsylvania State Police or any local law enforcement agency and return said firearm to its lawful owner if the owner is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm. When a court of law has determined that the Pennsylvania State Police or any local law enforcement agency have failed to exercise the duty under this subsection, reasonable attorney fees shall be awarded to any lawful owner of said firearm who has sought judicial enforcement of this subsection.

Your broken Jiminez seems like a good test and you can probably file the motion without a lawyer.

I know it's probably been discussed before, but lets bring it back here: under what authority are these people receiving 6102-firearms without transfer through sheriff or FFL?
"By the end of the day, Goods for Guns of Allegheny County had collected 75 guns"
"Pittsburgh police Sgt. Tony Viscomi, a Zone 3 officer who has volunteered at the event for years. Yesterday's was the 16th annual."

Here are some curveballs I'd like to introduce into our repertoire for those not already aware:

53 Pa.C.S.A § 2961. Scope of powers of home rule
A municipality which has adopted a home rule charter may exercise any powers and perform any function not denied by the Constitution of Pennsylvania, by statute or by its home rule charter. All grants of municipal power to municipalities governed by a home rule charter under this subchapter, whether in the form of specific enumeration or general terms, shall be liberally construed in favor of the municipality.
53 Pa.C.S.A. § 2962
§ 2962. Limitation on municipal powers
(c) Prohibited powers.--A municipality shall not:
(2) Exercise powers contrary to, or in limitation or enlargement of, powers granted by statutes which are applicable in every part of this Commonwealth.
(g) Regulation of firearms.--A municipality shall not enact any ordinance or take any other action dealing with the regulation of the transfer, ownership, transportation or possession of firearms.

16 P.S. § 7514
§ 7514. Private gifts or payments to police officers prohibited; state not to accept gifts of military supplies
No State police, sheriff, deputy sheriff, constable, deputy constable, detective, police or other peace officer of this Commonwealth, or of any political subdivision thereof, (collectively referred to in this act as “officers”), shall perform, directly or indirectly, any official services or official duties for any person, association or corporation, or receive, directly or indirectly, any compensation, gifts or gratuities from any person, association or corporation during the period of his official services: Provided, however, That nothing herein contained shall prohibit such officers from serving writs and other legal process as now authorized by law. Any compensation payable to any officer for official duties and services shall be paid only out of the public funds, to the amount and in the manner prescribed by law. Gifts, donations, and gratuities of any nature whatsoever made by any person, association or corporation to the Commonwealth, or any political subdivision thereof, or any official or agent thereof, shall not constitute public funds within the meaning of this section.
The Commonwealth, or any political subdivision thereof, or any official or agent thereof, shall not accept as a gratuity, gift or donation any arms, ammunition, military supplies, tear gas or equipment or supplies or articles of a similar character from, nor shall any such gratuity, gift or donation be made by, any person, association or corporation.
Any and all contracts or agreements, whether written or oral, express or implied, heretofore or hereafter made and entered into between the Commonwealth, or any political subdivision thereof, or any official or agent thereof, and any person, association or corporation in violation of any provision of this section, are hereby declared to be contrary to public policy and void, and no such contract or agreement shall afford any basis for the granting of legal or equitable relief by any court.
§ 7515. Penalty for violation of act
Any sheriff, deputy sheriff or any other official of the county, or any other officer as defined in this act, or any person, association or corporation violating any of the provisions of this act, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction, shall be sentenced to pay a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100.00) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500.00), or to undergo an imprisonment of not less than ninety (90) days nor more than two (2) years, or both.

When I read 18 pa.c.s. 6111.1(b)(4) in conjunction with 16 P.S. 7514, and including 18 Pa.C.S. 6111(c) for 6102-firearms, it seems like awfully shaky ground they're operating on...

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

Goods for Guns has been involved in shenanigans like this for years, apparently:
Seven-year buyback effort shelves 6,535 weapons in Allegheny County

[Chip W]

"Mike Hartle decided it was time to get rid of the two handguns he acquired several years ago to protect himself.

"I have two small kids, ages 4 and 6. I'm just worried about them. They are at the age where they are curious about everything," said Hartle, 39, of Ohio Township."



I guess Mike never heard of something like a gun locker.

[wellcraft]

"Mike Hartle decided it was time to get rid of the two handguns he acquired several years ago to protect himself.

"I have two small kids, ages 4 and 6. I'm just worried about them. They are at the age where they are curious about everything," said Hartle, 39, of Ohio Township."



I guess Mike never heard of something like a gun locker.

people like mike hartle are too stupid to educate their kids on gun safety and then buy a small handgun safe to keep guns away from curious kids. i can't believe some gun owners are so incredibly foolish and naive

[FormerUser123]

I wonder how much they'll give me for my garden hose nozzle.

[ViperGTS19801]

I know it's probably been discussed before, but lets bring it back here: under what authority are these people receiving 6102-firearms without transfer through sheriff or FFL?

The way the police in Philadelphia explained it to me when I asked them that very question was that the guns are being "confiscated" and that somehow exempts them from having to go through an FFL.

[prophet23]

I wish i knew about the gun buyback program. I would've went and see if any good rifles were being turned in. I'd give em $50 cash money for it.

[39flathead]

There is an interesting connection to this Pittsburgh gun buy back and the president of Goods for Guns.

Phillip Dacey is the President of Goods for Guns, but he is also the President of the Pennsylvania Gun Collectors Association.
He is also an FFL as far as I know.

Mr. Dacey, as I have previously pointed out on this board, also sells used gun parts at the PCGA shows.
How about that for a good gig, buying guns at a huge discount from people that think their guns are going to be "off the streets", only to have them stripped for parts and sold at a huge profit at the very gun shows he promotes.
I don't have any proof that this goes on, but , c'mon, the same guy that buys guns for $50 and $25 gift cards also promotes gun shows and sells used parts?

Coincidence? I think not.
This is why I do not pay to set up at the PGCA shows any more, this man has a serious conflict of interest and how can I compete price wise with a guy that is getting Lugers for $50?
IIRC, he is a retired police officer, maybe his intentions are not suspect, so maybe I am way off base here, but I doubt it.

This whole scam is a joke.

A link to the PGCA site showing Phil as President:
http://www.paguncollectors.org/officers.htm

From the article:

Under the program, those turning in guns are not asked to identify themselves and are not asked any questions, said Philip Dacey, president of Goods for Guns, which is funded by donations from foundations and individuals.

Dacey does not view the event as anti-gun. "I am a gun guy. I used to go hunting and liked shooting targets," he said.

Notice the article does not say what happens to the guns.

[dregan]

Kudos to the girl friends of criminals for doing the right thing.

Kudos to turning in a busted up .380 for food money. He could have sold it as is and hurt someone, if it is in that bad of shape and the buyer wasn't educated enough in the what if's. Safe way to dispose of it.

I would like to personally slap the ones turning in collectors items that could have been sold.

I would like to personally kick in the ass the guy to lazy to educate his children and get a safe or lock out box.

These programs are good in some aspects if used right. I can't say I am 100% against them.

[CenterTree]

One gun turned in yesterday was found in the snow, Dacey said. In the past, girlfriends of convicted felons have turned in guns.

"We had one woman who brought in her boyfriend's backpack — with a gun, crack cocaine and $3,800 in cash," Viscomi said.

Seems to me that getting a $50 grocery gift certificate in exchange for a bag full of coke, a gun AND $3800 is NOT that great of a deal!!!