Colt 1911

[LukaszDM]

Hello, I am thinking about spoiling myself for Christmas and purchasing a 1911. I have read several of the forums and most of them address several brands of the 1911. I would like to get input specifically on the Colt 1911 (any model) preferrably 5 inch barrel. I recently held the newer "rail" XSE (I believe)1911 and it felt great.

It seems to me that I am finding a pattern in that people on here for the most part say that Colts are not as reliable as other manufacturers. Am I correct in this interpretation? I just assumed that Colt was the Grandfather of gun makers and by default would make some of the most quality pieces when it came to one of the most popular designs in the world.

Please reply if you have any knowledge/experience specifically with the Colt 1911's and help educate me a little bit! Thank you all in advance....

[Noah_Zark]

. . . I would like to get input specifically on the Colt 1911 (any model) preferrably 5 inch barrel. I recently held the newer "rail" XSE (I believe)1911 and it felt great.

I first fired a 1911 in 1964 at the age of 10, and went on to maintain M1911A1s as a Small Arms Repairman (2111) in the USMC and USMCR between '72 and '86. I've owned multiple 1911s since the late '70s. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have extensive experience with the platform.

Colt has made a variety of models of the 5" 1911 over the past 100 years, and that model is commonly known as the "Government Model." The design was unchanged until the late 60s/early 70s when the "Series 70/Mk IV" Government Model was introduced, incorporating a four-fingered collet type barrel bushing for theoretically tighter lockup and better accuracy. Colt purists immediately began beating their breasts and knashing their teeth while wailing that the purity of the Pony breed was compromised.

A decade later, Colt introduced the Series 80 Government Model, which incorporated a trigger-operated firing pin block to prevent accidental discharges from the spring-returned inertial firing pin. (The chance of such an AD was astronomically remote, but somebody thought it necessary. That's a different story.) Colt purists immediately began beating their breasts and knashing their teeth while wailing that the purity of the Pony breed was compromised, and pined for a return to the thrilling days of yesteryear and the Mk IV Series 70 with the collet bushing but WITHOUT the dreaded FP block. Fickle crowd, Colt fans, having taken only 10 years to forget their displeasure with the Series 70 when it was introduced.

Fast forward to 2010, and Colt now offers both Series 80 Govt Models with the FP block, and remakes of the Series 70 without the FP block. Apparently the fear of product liability suits diminished somewhat, particularly in light of the demand from shooters for a Series 70 reproduction.

Either Government Model is a quality pistol. The trigger pull does seem to stack a bit on some examples of Series 80 Colts with the FP block, but most examples I've handled or fired are pretty good. Perhaps disassembly and some judicious polishing would help, along with a dab of lubricant here and there, but overall I cannot throw rocks at either the Series 80 or the Series 70 remake.

All that said, if you stick with Colt you have your choice of used pre-Series 70 Commercial Govt Models, used original Series 70s, used and new Series 80s, and used and new Series 70 repros. Prices will be anywhere from $500 for really used, on up.

. . . It seems to me that I am finding a pattern in that people on here for the most part say that Colts are not as reliable as other manufacturers. Am I correct in this interpretation? I just assumed that Colt was the Grandfather of gun makers and by default would make some of the most quality pieces when it came to one of the most popular designs in the world.

What you will find:

1) Many people dislike Colt because of the relatively high pricing and "paying for the Pony" on the side of the slide (paying for the name). Personally, I think both Colt and Kimber 1911s are overpriced.

2) Like with automobiles and light trucks, people have brand preferences. There are Colt vs. Kimber discussions just as there are Ford vs. Chevy arguments. Personal preferences can be made based on objective experience and evidence, or from emotion, or both. When it's grand-dad's 1911 he smuggled home from Iwo Jima in his sea bag, the grandson owner of that 1911A1 will think it's the best 1911 ever made. In my book, if that old warhorse shoots and hits close to POA, I'd tend to agree with the owner. When it's a 1998 Kimber that won't empty a 7-rd mag without three jams, in my book it's a POS now, but with tuning and work it can be a solid performer. I can tend to be objective, but some people cannot.

3) Many people dislike the 1911 platform altogether. Some consider it a dinosaur that's lived beyond its time, others claim it is problematic and unreliable, and you would do better with a fresher design, or an "upgraded" 1911 from Kimber, Springfield, S&W, CZ USA/Dan Wesson, etc. Some of these have incorporated an external pivoting extractor as opposed to the spring type internal extractor of the original design.

4) There are some who claim that you mist spend at least $1000 one way or another to have a reliable 1911. Either buy a $1000 high-end gun, or spend $500 on an entry-level gun and then another $500 on tuning and accessories.

5) There are some who hold that 1911s cannot be reliable out of the box. The single biggest issue with any new 1911 in my opinion and experience is the extractor. If the extractor is properly adjusted from the factory, the weapon will feed and extract reliably, and empties will land in an 18" circle just behind and to the right of your right foot. If the extractor is NOT properly set up and adjusted, the weapon will fail to feed ball ammo, which will hang up halfway into the chamber (people often mistake this for the feed ramp needing polished. NEVER start polishing anything on a cranky 1911 without first making sure the extractor is properly adjusted), and if it feeds, the empties will land on your head, in your face, or down your shirt. Ladies with low-cut tops, take note.

6) 1911s can be magazine sensitive, and there are SCADS of cheap knock-off fake "USGI" mags in semi-official packaging for sale in shops and shows. DO NOT waste your $$$. In my opinion and experience, use only Chip McCormick, Wilson Combat, or Tripp magazines. I've standardized on 8-rd blued McCormick Shooting Stars, and they have been solid reliable performers in all of my full-size 1911s.

7) Some people get wrapped around the axle about Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts in the newer guns, and most manufacturers use some MIM parts to varying degrees. MIM parts breakage has been an issue, but IMO and experience not to the degree that one would think reading all the anti-MIM-parts posts here and elsewhere. Sure, my preference is for non-MIM parts, but I've had conventional forged parts fail in the past 40 years, too. Firearms are machines, and machines break down. We do the best we can to prevent it, but the important thing is to train for dealing with failures when they do occur.

In my own experience, I've had Colt 1911s that have functioned flawlessly, and Colt 1911s that were not reliable until tuned. I've not owned a Kimber 1911, but I can tell you that early Kimber 1911s in the late 90s were bad. Very bad. I used to tune those Kimbers sold by a local shop and returned by customers because factory warranty service was so backed up. With time and experience, Kimber has improved. I've owned three Springfield Mil-Spec 1911s that had HORRIBLE trigger pulls -- all over 8 lbs. Accuracy was more of a pattern than a group. Once I tuned the actions and got the trigger pulls down to 4 lb or so, accuracy improved. But I've long since sold the Springfields because they really didn't light my fire.

Of the nine or ten 1911s that I still own, the three most reliable and most accurate of all of them are: 1) Rock Island Armory 5" Government Model; 2) Norinco 1911A1; 3) Colt Series 80 Stainless Steel Government Model. Either I or anyone else can pick any of the three up and keep all shots in a seven or eight rd mag within 3" at 15 yds. I can bust claybirds standing on edge on the 25 yd berm with any of the three. All three outshoot the semi-safe queen Series 70 Gold Cup I have, a model which is largely held to be the epitome of the 1911 evolution in terms of accuracy. I can get it to perform if I spent the time on it, but I just haven't had the level of interest in doing so. I'll likely sell it, because a can't see it shooting better than the three above; those three shoot as if laser-guided.

In my opinion and experience, the most remarkably consistent and reliable make of 1911 is the Rock Island Armory. I know over a dozen people who have them and have had NO problems w.r.t. reliability or accuracy. I bought mine used two years ago for $290 OTD, and if I took a 1911 to the range over the past year, it has been that RIA 5" 1911A1 Govt Model.

I hope this windy helps; best of luck.

Noah

[Neko456]

My 1st 1911 was a Colt Commander it cost $389 bak in 80s almost stripped I added another $380 - $400 into it and now its one of my most proven 1911s serving as a duty weapon and carry weapon at times. It can load and shoot any type ammo even Lead Semi Wad Cutters reliability because I'v had professional gun smithing done to it.

In contrast my Kimber came from the factory as it is today it cost me $589 its a good 1911 has everything and more that the Colt has. It won't shoot LSWC ammo as well but it eats up JHP and roundnose.

The same can be said for my Custom dual tone SA 1911 all kinds of extras but it doesn't like LSWC ammo only the polish and throated Colt shoots everything, because of its Pro upgrades.

Colts are known for it metalogy and classic lines. Colts cost a little more but they resale for a little more also pending the buyer.

[fastfive0]

If it ain't a colt...it's only a copy!! Lol like said above, there are good and bad in any brand. I'm a colt and glock guy just as I am a ford mustang person. To each his own, but even someone who doesn't know guns knows what a "colt.45" is!!

[Gun]

2) Like with automobiles and light trucks, people have brand preferences. There are Colt vs. Kimber discussions just as there are Ford vs. Chevy arguments.

An old saying goes that if you take a Ford truck, and rebuild it with Chevy parts you will have a damn good truck!

Decide on a 1911. Clean it! Use the stock mag. Shoot decent quality target ammo. The same ammo! Don't mix it up. 1911s are tight, and several hundred rds should suffice to loosen it up.

Changing out parts before the gun is broken in can create problems that were not there to begin with. Same goes for different mags.

Good luck in your search.

[JP8]

It seems to me that I am finding a pattern in that people on here for the most part say that Colts are not as reliable as other manufacturers. Am I correct in this interpretation?

I would not take advice from someone who would say that. Based on my experiences, I could badmouth Glock and Beretta as inferior to my Colts, but I won't.

Noah did a tremendous job in his post. I'll add a little more. As far as the new Colt's, occasionally a few bad apples get by QC just as with any other maker however Colt is well-known for their customer support and personalized warranty work after the sale. Some of the new Colts have had off-center recoil spring holes, so check for that as well as dustcover rubbing. Keep in mind, Colt is one of the few 1911s built on a frame that was forged in the U.S. You pay a premium for that. Personally, I do not want a cast-framed 1911 from the Philippines anymore than one from China. I think Colts hold their resale value the best as well.

I've tried a lot of different mags and I honestly think people create their own problems with this subject. Standard factory Colt 7-rd mags (checkmate or metalform) work just fine. Much arguing and tears have been wasted on the 8-rd mags and it's best to just stick with factory mags at first...and then when your life seems a little boring, start messing with 8-rd mags.

The series 80 system is perfectly fine for all but the hardcore competition shooter. As far as a carry piece, I prefer the series 80 system. The XSE series is very nice though I personally like the plain-jane 1991 series without the front serrations.

[crlovel]

I have yet to find bad advice from Noah. Listen to him.

(But my 1998 Kimber runs like a champ, you jerk!)

[RGL01]

I own a Colt M1991 Stainless 5", a Colt Series 70 Stainless, and a Springfield Armory GI. The SA was not reliable until Springfield reamed the chamber, polished the feed ramp, and smoothed out the frame rails. Colt is all I'll purchase in the future. My Colts are very well built and have been very reliable right out of the box. Personally I prefer the Series 70 without the firing pin safety (the trigger pull seems much better), but Series 80s (ie 1991/Rail Gun/XSE) are good too and I wouldn't hesitate to get one. Next up on my list is a Colt Delta Elite 10mm (series 80).

[mongo]

Since we are on the subject of Colt 1911's, Do they still make the ones with the "four finger bushing with the reverse taper barrel? I have a series 70 and a early series 80 and they both have this system. They have never broken and they shoot verry good.

[JP8]

Since we are on the subject of Colt 1911's, Do they still make the ones with the "four finger bushing with the reverse taper barrel? I have a series 70 and a early series 80 and they both have this system. They have never broken and they shoot verry good.

No. Even the series 70 reissues have solid bushings.