Philly: Public Hearing On Police Conduct & Out Of State LTCFs

**andrewjs18** · December 14th, 2010, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by fragmag

Clarke joked about that likelihood, telling Gillison, “Look forward to being with you in court again.”

Weird, I don't find this to be funny.

yeah, me neither. especially when the burden of the cost rests on the tax payers.

**Chvyrs90** · December 14th, 2010, 07:03 PM

Today I sent an E-mail to councilman Clarke asking him to explain the so called FL loophole to me. I explained that FL requires a background check, and also makes you take a safety course before issue, so how is this a "loophole"? I also stated that maybe if Philly made it easier for law abidding citizens to obtain one without jumping through hopes, they wouldn't be inclined to apply for an out of state permit. I told him that criminals do not care whether or not they have a piece of paper saying they can carry, they are criminals and do what they want. I'm not expecting to hear much, if anything from this tool, but if I do I'll post his response here for you all to read.

**tes151** · December 14th, 2010, 07:08 PM

Quote :But the author of the legislation, Councilman Darrell Clarke, readily admitted that gun advocates will challenge the measure if it is signed into law.Quote:

Since Philly can't make gun laws, there will not be any measure signed into " LAW ". This is just another thing to ignore and hope you get arrested for breaking the illegal law so you can get early retirement from the good taxpayers of Philly.

**twoguns** · December 14th, 2010, 09:35 PM

"I explained that FL requires a background check, and also makes you take a safety course before issue, so how is this a "loophole"? I also stated that maybe if Philly made it easier for law abiding citizens to obtain one without jumping through hopes, they wouldn't be inclined to apply for an out of state permit. "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You raise a good point. The PA process for acquiring a LTCF is really a joke. They don't even do a check like a NICs check when you buy a gun. If they were serious about keeping felons from getting the license they would do a criminal background check like Florida does. That entails fingerprints, and a criminal background check with state and federal criminal records. They also require proof of an approved safety course, etc. PA plays the person of "good character" game which is quite subjective. Hence the sheriff can deny based on a whim not based on definite proof of a criminal past.

Now, having said that, I think the entire idea of a permit or license to exercise a right is bogus. Especially in a state where the Constitution clearly states: the "right of the citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be questioned." So why all the questions to legally exercise your right? The answer is because the citizens have allowed a bunch of lawyers to monkey around with the meaning and intent of those who drafted the state constitution and subsequently allowed them to pass legislation that perverts that clear and unambiguous language. It is also a cash cow for the government. To license a right is a restriction of that right. From my perspective, I want to exercise my right and don't want any hassles from cops or complications with the law. Much as I don't agree with the statute I abide and pay for the license. It is a pragmatic approach. I hold both the PA LTCF and the Florida Concealed weapons permit....and it is, by the way, a weapons license meaning you can legally carry a knife or a variety of other weapons as opposed to the LTCF is firearms only. There is also a requirement that applicants know and understand the judicious use of force in any given juridiction where that permit is recognized.

So now you have cities like Philly, with elected officials who are anti-gun and do everything they can to deny many people from acquiring the LTCF and then play games by saying the out of state Florida license is a way to circumvent their control over the process. Calling it a "loop-hole" is just not accurate. It is actually a way to avoid the anit-gun crowd's abuse of the process.

Once again, this is just another feel good idea by anti-gun folks to keep people safe and keep guns out of the hands of criminals, blah, blah, blah. The fact remains that criminals will get guns and disregard the law so the stupid law is useless at preventing that.....like all gun control laws, they are ineffective at preventing crime. An armed populace is better able to thwart criminals not words on the pages of statute books.

**PA Traveler** · December 14th, 2010, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by twoguns

The PA process for acquiring a LTCF is really a joke. They don't even do a check like a NICs check when you buy a gun.

Completely false. Not only do they do a PICS check- (PA's redundant version of NICS) -- exactly what they do when you purchase a gun, I watched the deputy dial and heard his end of the conversation.

**P7hk9** · December 14th, 2010, 10:26 PM

Isn't Councilman Clarke guilty of a misdemeanor for violating 6120?

**Chvyrs90** · December 14th, 2010, 10:27 PM

All legal BS aside, the main reason I'm considering an out of state license is simple: WORK. Philadelphia requires me to take 2 days vacation just to recieve a LTCF. Mon thru Fri until 2pm? What full time working citizen can fit that into their schedule. 1 day to apply, and another to pick it up. I work out of the city, and theres no way I can leave early and make it there without losing hours. This is another point I brought up to Clarke, that maybe if they didn't make it so difficult, more people would apply in Philly. Maybe if these council members used the money they get in these ridiculous salaries into cleaning up the city, we wouldn't have the trash that causes the BS laws to be thought of! Yeah, like that would happen!

**Devrbd** · December 15th, 2010, 12:19 PM

According to the below article, the bill could receive full council approval by January 27th.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loca...isconduct.html

**johnnysquire** · December 15th, 2010, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by P7hk9

Isn't Councilman Clarke guilty of a misdemeanor for violating 6120?

6120 regulates counties and municipalities, not legislators, and it doesn't define offenses. Even if it did set a penalty for forbidden acts, the councilman would almost certainly be immune when acting in his legislative capacity.