One Simple Question

[Lucas]

I use varget for 223, works very well for me.

[Toxicodendron11]

Bullseye for 9mm. IMR 4895 and Varget for .223

[streaker69]

I saw on another thread that there's apparently a hazmat fee for ordering powder online? Do you guys pretty much wait for gun shows to stock up on powder and primers to avoid that?

[saleen322]

One more vote for Varget for the .223 Rem. I have had good luck with W231and Bullseye with the 9mm but Winchester Super Field (WSF) has been giving me the best accuracy lately. These are from 25 yards standing, unsupported with WSF. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the powders suggested. Good luck.

[max384]

I saw on another thread that there's apparently a hazmat fee for ordering powder online? Do you guys pretty much wait for gun shows to stock up on powder and primers to avoid that?

The hazmat fee is only $20, so if you buy in bulk and find a good enough price after the hazmat and shipping charges, you can still come out ahead. Last time I got powder/primers online, I got an eight pound keg and 25k primers, if I remember correctly. I think one hazmat fee is good for up to 50lbs. of powder/primers.

[dk99358]

Until you get develop loads that you like, I'd stay away from big powder containers and bulk orders. There are plenty of gunshops in Lanc/Leb that sell powder. I would rather spend a couple of bucks extra on a pound than buy an 8 pounder of something my gun doesn't like.

I've been loading H335 in the 223 but am going to try some TAC. H335 has pretty big muzzle flash. Unless they've changed it, IMR4198 is fairly long sticks of powder, they don't go thru the powder measure very well so I'd stay away from that.

Accurate has a couple of powders that are ideal for the 223 also

Can't help with the 9 as I don't load that.

Dale

[brownman]

W231 (or HP38; it's the same powder labeled two ways) for the 9mm, and Varget for the 223.

I prefer W231 for 9mm because it is not as fast a Bullseye, and being a bit bulkier it is a little harder to double-charge than Bullseye. That, and it functions in 9mm handguns and subguns and is fairly accurate. I use 4.8 gr of W231 under a 115 plated Berrys or Rainier bullet. That works out to over 1450 cartridges per pound of powder, or about 1.65 cents per round.

NOTE WELL: When I first started loading 9mm, I dutifully loaded the cartridges to recommended OAL as per the loading manual. When I fired the rounds, it was like shooting a 357 Magnum. I then took to seating the bullets such that they fit the pistol magazines and not any deeper. The reloads then felt like 9mm factory rounds when fired. 9mm is one of those cartridges whose pressure level is sensitive to bullet seating depth, especially when using fast powders.

Noah

Mr Zark, what would you say is a good average OAL for the 9mm then? I also am new to 9mm. Most info I've read says 1.2 or 1.1 . Above you say "such they fit the mags". Maybe a dumb ? But measure the inside distance of the mag, front to back ? Whata ya think?

[Noah_Zark]

Mr Zark, what would you say is a good average OAL for the 9mm then? I also am new to 9mm. Most info I've read says 1.2 or 1.1 . Above you say "such they fit the mags". Maybe a dumb ? But measure the inside distance of the mag, front to back ? Whata ya think?

I cannot make a hard and fast recommendation w.r.t. OAL for the 9x19; that's the point of my post that you quoted. A "rule of thumb" recommended OAL doesn't necessarily take into account the myriad 9mm bullet profiles and weights available. That's why I went to a "practical" OAL -- what will fit and cycle through the magazine.

In my experience related above, I was using the Hornady 124 gr FMJ-FP bullet and I seated it to the OAL recommended in two of the loading manuals I had at the time. The bullets were seated such that the intersection between the cylindrical and conical sections of the bullet was about even with the case mouth. Those rounds felt WAY hot when I fired them -- most of the bullet was in the case as compared to a conventional parabolic-shaped 124 gr 9mm bullet where most of the bullet is outside the case because the bullet is not seated as deeply.

That's when it occurred to me to seat the Hornady 124 gr FMJ-FPs such that they cleared the front-to-back inside dimension of the magazine. Because the bullets rest at an angle to the front and back mag walls, I did a seat-try-seat deeper drill until the rounds could be inserted into the mag and cycle out of them, and not 0.001" deeper.

I hope this helps,

Noah

[jrm]

I've spent the day doing research on reloading. I think I have everything picked out that I'm going to start with, but so far I haven't been able to find exactly what kind of powder to look for.

All I'm planning to reload is 9mm 115g JHP and .223 55g just for plinking. Don't really need anything special for the time being. I've looked around and just really haven't found any direct recommendations. I know it'll be two different powders, but there's so many different brands and kinds it's rather confusing.

I'm just looking for a simple recommendation for those two loads.

Thanks!

Alright you said keep it simple. I tend to become a wind bag with this kinda stuff, so i am going to try to turn over a new leaf.
9mm 115gn JHP :
Best loads with lighter bullets come very near to duplicating 357 Magnum revolver performance. With heavier bullets, the 9mm compares well to the top38 special+P loads. Amoung its best features is limmited recoil. All but the most sensitive shooters find typical 9mm-chambered pistols manageable. A#7 was specifically designed for the 9mm luger, its performance is most impressive.
A#7- start gns-7.9 at 1052 (fps)-8.8 Max gns at 1196(fps) I would suggest you start at the start gns, I would never go to the Max, thats just me.

223 Rem 55gns:
First off 223 is not 5.56. the later is loaded hotter, and the brass is made thicker for this reason. If your barrel does not say 223,556nato and the twist rate. do not shoot the 556 ammo. Apologys if you know this already.
Also twist rates come into play, A 1/7 twist will stabalize a heavy bullet, while a 1/12 is a slower twist rate and is better for lighter or the 55gn and less weight bullets.
I know that with a 52grain bullet seated normally, usable case capacity is about 28.8 grains of water. Now take into account and do the math for a 55gn bullet.
These powders are noted performers, in no particular order:
H322- start- 21.0 gns at 2841 (fps)- 23.0 gns MAX at (3106 (fps)
RL15- start- 25.0 gns at 3045 (fps) - 26.5 gns MAX at 3342(fps)
VarGet-start- 24.9 gns ? (fps) - 27.5 gns Max at 3384 (fps)
BLC (2)- start- 25.5 gns at 3069 (fps) - 27.5 gns MAX at 3313 (fps)

Note: I have used the VarGet at starting gns 25.5 gns rifle functione well, my groups were not that tight. I have a 1/7 twist rate in a 20" H-Bar Colt. I tend to think twist is overstabalizing the projectile.

I now moved up to 75gn military match bullet and BLC(2) powder. As to match bullet to twist rate. Do not know yet how this performs. With weather and job i havent got to range.

Try online- Hi-Tech Amunition, i got a good deal on powder and primers. They also have projectiles and other stuff. BLC(2) $94/8lbs, RL15 $75/5lbs, H335 $88/8lbs, CCI # 41 small rifle primers (military) $25/1000. This is just some of the stuff they have as of now, inventory changes. Dan and Huey are great sale poeple aiming to please, i recieved my order promptly no problems. They have pistol reloading compotenets as well. With these kind of savings it still saves regardless of the $20 haz-Mat fee, IMO

I like to look at the reloading manuals, and try to stay in the middle of the lists in that bullet weight i read back when that this was a good rule of thumb. The ones listed at the top are the faster loads and the ones at the bottom are the slower. I also like to look at the Press. (cup/psi) trying to keep a happy medium. as far as burn rates of powder, lighter weight bullets need faster burning powder and heavy bullets use slower burning powder, as a general rule.

I will stop now as promised earlier, Good luck Streaker, i hope you find that load your guns like the best. P.S- start at the start gns, and move up buy 1/2 gn increments, make 10 rounds each, label and take notes. Stay at least 10% less from max. Somewhere in between thier is you sweet spot that your gun likes the best. At least with that powder your using, remember there are so many other powders. Isnt life good in America. Take care, Jack

[Flash]

OK, I'll add to the mix.

I have been using 6.7 gr Accurate #5 with a Precision Delta 115 gr FMJ for my 9mm. (HI=1171, LO=1181, AVG=1164, ES=36.85, SD=11.61) However, for about half the powder cost, I tried Titegroup, 4.4 grains, same bullet, and averaged 1097fps, S.D.=16.73, which aint half bad.

4.6 gr (AVG=1168) just about equalled WWB (AVG=1174) For blasting ammo, teaching and training, this is about it.

Going as high as 4.8 grains (a string of 20 shots, 6/8/09, temp 73deg. S&W Model 39 - - - All amnmo loaded on LEE Loadmaster, at the same time and only difference was powder measure setting), LO =1187, HI=1223, AVG=1205, E.S.=36.02, S.D.-12.20

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As far as 5.56, I use Accurate Arms #2230, 26.0 grains with the Hornady you mentioned, 55gr FMJBT w/c, ISTR @3100fps, good for me, and pretty accurate out to 300 yds, anyway. (Heck, I know that my club has a target out at 400 yds, I've even been there once or twice, but to actually SEE it from the bench, well, isn't that what spotting scopes and binoculars are for?)


THE USUAL CAVEATS APPLY: Do not attempt to start with these figures, follow recognized loading manuals and procedures and begin at listed starting load and work up from there, keeping in mind pressure and accuracy in your particular guns.

Flash