Project S&W wheel gun - help in Bucks?

[zachomega]

A while back, I purchased a frankenstein Smith and Wesson. The gun is a model 1937 Brazilian export (essentially a model 1917) married to a model 1955 barrel which I believe has been cut down to 4" from 6". The original barrel should have been a 5" barrel. This gun I believe is classed as an N frame.

It is chambered in .45 ACP which is why it appealed to me in the first place. The neat thing about the Smith and Wesson 1917 is that it doesn't need the moon clips to be loaded. Sure they make ejecting the spent casing much easier, but in a pinch if you needed to load the gun and didn't have a moon clip, the cylinder charge holes are ever so slightly tapered allowing the cartridges to be loaded without them.

I knew it needed some work but I wasn't exactly sure what all it needed or when I'd have the time to get around to fixing it up.

There is a timing problem. You can slowly pull the trigger and the hammer will drop and the cylinder won't lock.

There is also a problem with the hammer. When you pull it back for single action, you have to pull it ALL of the way back and kind of hard to make sure it locks up. Possibly the effect of an action job gone bad.

Despite the wavy cylinder line, there does not appear to be any endshake issues. I'm not sure how the line got like that, but then again, I'm not sure how the entire gun got into the condition it is in now.

I have some ugly Hogue grips for it that have all kinds of abrasions in them as well. I didn't even bother putting them in the picture as I think they need to go. I like wood anyway.

Somebody also added a rear sight as the original sight was a groove in the frame and the front sight was on the barrel. The new front sight is of an un identified manufacturer. Any ideas?

The cylinder release has been modified to a locking ball style.

The gun has been reblued at some point which wore away a lot of the markings on the frame. I don't think the barrel was reblued.

I think at the very least I need a hand (the part...although another person would be nice too) and a cylinder star/rathchet to get the timing in order. But I have no idea if the crane/yoke is bent.

I have a source for parts (www.poppertsgunparts.com) but I'm not entirely sure what all I will need.

I want to hear some ideas for what can and should be done with this gun to make it a nice target gun. I think due to the removal of the rear sight groove, it can never really be restored to its original shape, so I'd like to make something fun and useful out of it.

Even better if you are in the Bucks/NE Philadelphia area and want to do some hands on helping. I can repay you with a case of cheap beer, a bottle of wine/liquor or whatever.

I consider myself to be fairly mechanically inclined, but having the help of somebody with a lot more experience would make me feel a lot more comfortable. Especially since some of the parts are too expensive to have to buy twice because of my own error.

-Zach

[Steve_NEPhila]

It will take a skilled gunsmith with experience in revolvers to make this right. A new hand and extractor star will have to be mated together, which is a very difficult process. This is not a do it yourself project, not by any stretch of the imagination, unless you are an experienced revolver fitter.

This revolver may have promise, or it could be sold as is on the smith and wesson forum (not for very much, I am sure). Wish I could help, but this needs some seriously skilled individual to fix.

If you are thinking of getting it done John Robinson at Classic Pistol would be a fine pick to do the gunsmith work. He has done work on my wheel guns and it has been fantastic.

[jakebrake]

steve is 100% correct. you may have inherited a nightmare. this isn't the type of thing you can do yourself with a screwdriver and some epoxy. just the timing issues alone should tell you this is above the average person's skill level.

as for your location, i agree again on john robinson. if it isn't worth fixing, he's enough of a gentleman to let you know, not screw you in the process.

[gold cup abuser]

Ok from the pics.....

Hammer has been altered. If you look at the shiny spot on the bottom you can see where someone took a file to it to 'smooth' it out.

Rear sight seems to be a stock adjustable s&w rear sight. No big problem and for me I would see it as a bonus.

Barrel is non original. Seems it may have been turned down and a new partridge front sight installed.

Wave line in cylinder....Timing warning issue. Clyinder Hand, clyinder stop and spring and cylinder pawl are all suspect and should be replaced.


To change the barrel to something original would not be a good move because of that adjustable front sight. If you do decide to change it you will need a frame wrench and barrel vice to get that barrel out. This is not fun or easy.

For the internal parts, you are going to have to change the parts listed plus the hammer. While it can be done if you take your time and get the Kunhausen N frame book, its not something I would recomend.

Your N frame has lots of potential, but all I would do to it is change the bad internals and maybe refinish it.

I like shiny guns myself :P So I would recomend Mahofsky Metalfe.

If you want a pair of N frame wood grips PM me and I will send you a set I have from my 629.

[zachomega]

Hello and thank you all for your interest and advice.

I know that it is a pretty serious disaster as it stands...which is kind of a good thing in my eyes. I can't wreck the value of it any worse than the previous owner.

I was tinkering with it reassembled and came to the conclusion about the hammer earlier. It doesn't lock into the single action notch on the hammer like it should and instead locks under it. I'm surprised it works at all. So replacing the hammer, the hand and star are definite.

I have Kunhausen's "The S&W Revolver: A Shop Manual". Is there one just on N frames? If so I may have to look into it.

Again, I understand the difficulty in this...it is almost like building a revolver from scratch with an altered frame to start. All of the parts I add will need to be carefully fitted (although it appears you can totally screw them up and the gun will still sort of function...just with timing issues and a bad trigger :P). We all have to start somewhere.

I agree about the rear sight being a bonus except it is missing the part that clicks under the rear screw. Also, should the other screw be loctited in place?

The front sight is umm...ugly. I'd like to replace it with something that allows for different inserts if possible. Unfortunately, I don't know what part would fit in the groove that has been cut for it. Patridge sights aren't my thing.

Pardon my lack of terminology but what is a cylinder pawl? I know the rest of the parts and plan on ordering them soon.

For now, I will probably leave the barrel. I don't want to invest more money than absolutely necessary to get it running. Once it is running, I will consider further options.

I also can't help but wonder if the botched action job involved the trigger at all.

-Zach

[zachomega]

Update:

I ordered parts from Popperts Gun Parts. Unfortunately, two of the parts I ordered did not arrive with the parts. I was not billed, but I have to make a phone call and see if these parts can be tracked down or if it was an oversight. I have a bad feeling that they are just not available though.

I need the ratchet star and hand. Any sources would be more than welcomed!

I also received a set of grips from Gold Cup Abuser! Thank you again! I can't say it enough!

I also ordered a new hammer, trigger, cylinder stop and slide stop.

I put the trigger, slide stop and hammer in. I had to fit the sear. It was my first time, but honestly, I didn't see it as that difficult. I have 3 to work with in the event that I mess something up. I used a flat file and worked slowly. I tried fitting it in the gun maybe 4 or 5 times before it felt right.

When it was first put in, the trigger wouldn't pull at all as the sear was blocking the action. Then the trigger was rough for a few more tries and then it felt good. Real good.

I also have the return of single action!! That is it doesn't have a hair trigger, the hammer doesn't need to be pulled back insanely hard, the hammer doesn't fall on its own with the slightest jostle.

From examining the old hammer and trigger, it looks like somebody did all of the classic do nots in one gun. To adjust the sear let out, they filed away at the hammer instead of the sear!!

Anyway, now that I have the action part all worked out, I still need to get the timing fixed up. I need a hand and a cylinder star. Any ideas?

Thanks for your help or just for reading,
-Zach

[Rundownfid]

Zack;
Have you put your request for parts and information out on the S&W Forum? There are many very knowledgeable and helpful shooters there, more than Pa. Firearms when it comes to S&Ws.

Sounds like you have this well on the way to being sorted out. If a copy of Jerry Michelk's triggers jobs (DVD) would help I could lend you my copy.

[gold cup abuser]

Glad the grips worked out

I was going to suggest Popperts, but since they are out.....

Hit up either Numrich or Sarco as they have odd parts like the ones you are looking for.

The S&W forums might also help.

As far as the front sight....

Look for a pin under the blade. If there is a pin it can be driven out and the front sight replaced. No pin the sight might have been silvered soldered in place

Sounds like you have it covered

enjoy

[gold cup abuser]

Big Duh moment here.......

I re checked the photos you originally posted and there's no pin under the sight blade :|

That sight might have been silver soldered in place. Only choices are to either replace the sight and silver solder a new one in place, or re cut the rear of the sight to a flat surface instead of the angled one that is there now.

And I think there is a gold bead there in the front sight........


To resolder that sight you will need:

Propane torch

Silver Solder

Soldering Talc...this goes where you DON'T want any solder to go to.

C clamp or welders clamps.

Padded vice to hold the revolver. Leather belt works good here just put the revolver grip frame in the vice, but take off the grips first lol...

Some heat and flux will take off the front sight.

Then center the replacement sight and clamp it in place. Apply the soldering talc, then put the heat on. Apply the heat from the front of the barrel and when the flux starts to bubble put down the solder.

The heat will draw the solder to the front of the sight.

Now just clean up, check zero and go shoot it

[Steve_NEPhila]

It looks like the front sight is a one piece unit that is bolted on. I would advise against heating or trying to solder anything unless you remove the sight assembly from the barrel.