Situational Awareness Discussion

[streaker69]

Frankly, it's craigslist rule #1, that could even be discussed on PAFOA earlier - never meet your virtual counterparts in your place. Always arrange for a meeting somewhere else.

Yeah, I guess. It's probably nothing.

So I should call my buddy back and tell him that I don't need him to set up a sniper's nest nearby?








I should probably stop watching Burn Notice....

[ddefazio]

Any transaction that I have had over Craigslist has been at the mall. I also will never have a yard sale at our home. I tell my wife that if our friends are having one we can bring our stuff there but never at our own home.

[AxiTech]

I picked up a little tool at a Security Symposium while in the Air Force. "Assess your environment as if you are planning to commit the crime". Looking at things through a thief's eyes, or a thug's eyes will absolutely show you things you never saw before.

[streaker69]

I picked up a little tool at a Security Symposium while in the Air Force. "Assess your environment as if you are planning to commit the crime". Looking at things through a thief's eyes, or a thug's eyes will absolutely show you things you never saw before.

Yeah, we do the same thing in IT security. You have to look at it from the evil haxor's eyes or else you won't see what they see.

[DC2.2GSR]

Ok, my spidy-sense is tingling. I started emailing with someone yesterday off of craigslist for something I'm interested in buying. Nothing big, only costs $35, told them I'd be happy to pick it up anytime. They said they'd sell it to me, but then didn't respond about picking it up. I just got an email a little bit ago asking if meeting with them in a parking lot near Park City would be ok.

Now my spidy-sense starts to go off, since I've bought things from people before, and have generally always met at their home, never had anyone actually set up a meet in a parking lot. Dunno, maybe they're worried about me, since I'm using an email address that doesn't have my real name attached to it, but they are.

I guess I'll get there a little early and scout things out just in case.

Nothing wrong with meeting a CL seller/buyer in a parking lot, as long as it's a public one during regular business hours of whatever place you're meeting at. I usually arrange a meeting at the Advance Auto and CVS parking lot right at the center of town. It's a big lot, which always has people going in and out, and it's not blocked from the street in any way. It's always well patrolled by local police too, which is a big plus. I usually meet during the daytime, but have met after dark on occasion, but always close to the stores and directly under a light.

[twoguns]

"Yeah, I guess. It's probably nothing.

So I should call my buddy back and tell him that I don't need him to set up a sniper's nest nearby?"

Dude, Don't be lax here. Keep the sniper in place until the deal is settled.....you never know.

[XD40coyote]

I started SA somewhere in my 4th year of life, as I ended up being prone to being bullied. In addition my mother was always drumming into me about not talking to strangers and all sorts of other good advice. At or about age 6 I had a game plan for when I had to walk 3 blocks to a friend's house, in case someone tried to abduct me. I actually practiced sprinting, though there was a block that if heading home, was a killer hill, and I never could figure the proper response with that, I simply could not run up it very fast. In or about that same year, I had a neighborhood bully try to steal my bike and I flat out said NO, pushed him, and peddled my little butt right out of there. After that I was always looking out for him if I went biking.

From K through 12 I was always looking for the bullies, plus I also observed them when they weren't picking on anyone, but rather their group behavior in general. It didn't take me long to realize that when one of them was alone that they were the biggest freaking cowards. I still couldn't avoid them 100%, and had to suffer the brunt, as I was taught to not try and beat them up- which was important since many were boys stronger than me and they tended to only bully in pairs or groups.

My mother did continue my education on avoiding being a crime victim all through my childhood. She had all these street smarts. You always lock the car doors after you get in, you always watch around you in parking garages, you always keep an eye on anyone that "looks suspicious". Does the person seem nervous and is looking around? Are they dressed shabby? Are they following anyone from a short distance?", do they look like they don't fit in with how the rest of the people are acting/dressed? I know this sounds racially biased, but she taught me to keep an eye on black people if they weren't dressed nice. Facts are that Baltimore's crime is mostly committed by blacks ( and is black on black for the most part as well). My mother worked near downtown and saw plenty of thug black kid stuff going on, including some being trained to purse snatch from their ( likley stolen) bikes. One day they rode past her and grabbed a watering can from her and went off laughing. She observed an older person that seemed to be part of their group. Likely she had been told by the local cops about this "purse snatching training".

I had to go live near downtown myself for college. I couldn't locate a full accredited art college in any rural or suburban areas, and MICA was close and had accepted me. It might seem stupid to some that I went to such a school, but I do have a BFA from it. The neighborhood around the school is the historical Bolton Hill, but to 2 sides it has what is bad neighborhoods bordering it. Being that I hate traveling, I chose to live down there, though my parents picked me up friday night and dropped me back monday morning or sunday night. The first year I was in student housing in a 15th floor apt. My mother went through all the stuff with me about SA, making sure I remembered it all, which I did. It was like 2nd nature, but had never been applied in such a situation as this. I did fine! I was only ever out at night for late classes and had a shuttle bus drop me off at the door. During daytime I was always glancing all around myself, didn't use alleys, etc. The 2nd year through 4th I lived in a run down apt right on the edge of Bolton Hill- for you who know- North Ave was behind my block, and Eutaw Place was to the west by 2 blocks. I had the dog you see in my avatar, he was a "gift" from the gods of safety. He was my open carry. The school allowed students to come to class with their dogs in most buildings. Howeve rmy SA never wavered just because I had my dog "open carry". It was always a chuckle causer to see big nasty dudes cross the street to avoid having to walk by me and the dog. I got bolder over time, after all the dog needed walked at night before bed, it was just the way he was. So I had a park around the corner that spanned a block's space, and every night I walked the dog around it. For a while a "dog park" group assembled about 9pm and this was great- safety in #'s and the dogs that could go off leash and be trusted could run around in circles playing. We met for at least a year. At some point I was staying late working on stuff in the ceramics room and would come home too late to meet the 9pm dog group, but when I was able to I went there at 9 expecting to see everyone as usual, but nobody showed up. Sometime in the next week or so I ran into one of the neighbors who was a "dog park person" and asked them what was going on. they said " oh we had some[black] guy walk through one night saying if a dog got too close to him he would cut it, so we all decided to quit going". I was floored! I said I thought that was a REALLY stupid reason to stop doing it, and it made me quite angry to see such wussyness en mass, but to no avail, the group never did start meeting back again. I had to walk the dog by myself and that was that.

The next stage was the forming of a "neighborhood night walk" group. I liked this as I could walk the dog with "safety in #s" at night. However my inner thoughts were that we should all be walking around with shotguns LOL. Criminals never bothered my group when I was there with the dog, but there was another group that did the area in south Bolton Hill who had no big dogs with them, and I heard some guy robbed them all at gunpoint one night. See, good reason for shotguns, right? Or at least open carry of large weird looking dogs...

I never lost my SA either, many years after this time period and back in a rural area I caught myself "scanning" when I was exiting my truck after coming home. For what? See, once you have it 2nd nature in you, it never goes away. It is always there, though it is good to get a refresher now and then and actually think about it while doing it. The answer "for what?" is... why not?

And yes I used to pretend I was a criminal and see it from their point of veiw of who they would victimize. I used to study about serial killers in my spare time and how Ted Bundy lured his victims. Little movies are in my head of every scene of anything I can think up, and every thing one should and should not do in regards to victimhood vs non victimhood. I even wrote fiction using the veiwpoint of the bad guys. Watching silly slasher films is also good- LOL- no don't go in that room-nooooo!

[streaker69]

You mentioned Baltimore and I just had two memories spring to mind regarding two minor incidents I had with homeless people, one in Baltimore and one in DC.

I think it was July 4th 94, not completely sure of the year, my girlfriend and I had just dropped her parents off at BWI and we decided to spend the day at Inner Harbor, problem is, when you get down there around 7am, there is nothing open and it's pretty deserted.

So we sat down on the low concrete wall right near one of the mall buildings near the trade center building and were trying to figure out what to do. When we sat, there was no one around. We're sitting there for a few minutes and next thing I know there's a homeless person sitting just a couple feet from me on the wall. Not sure how he got there without my noticing but there he was. We just ignored him and continued to talk for a bit until we heard:

"You're in my fucking seat, that's my goddamn seat and you're sitting in, you goddamn motherfucking people come down here and you're sitting in my seat...."

He just kept repeating that. We decided at that point it was time to go and just wandered off. The rest of the day was rather uneventful other than the incredible heat that day, we found the coolest place to hang out in the entire harbor is the Galley of The Torsk, the submarine that's tied up beside the Aquarium.

The other one was in DC about a year later we figured we'd spend the day down there seeing the sites. For some reason, we parked a couple blocks from the Whitehouse and figured we'd walk down to the National Mall and do the Smithsonian.

Back then the little park across from the Whitehouse was still open and you could still drive in front of it, I understand that's all changed now. But at the time the park had quite a few homeless people living in it. Directly across from the Whitehouse there was a guy who had all these disabled vet signs up and basically living in a ramshackle hut. Dunno if he was a vet or not, don't really care. As we approached he asked "Yo, you got some spare change or a cigarette". I politely said, "No, I don't smoke, and I don't carry change." Bot of which are true.

Next thing you know he's screaming at the top of his lungs "You're going to fucking hell!". We cross the street and head down towards the side of the Whitehouse and we can still hear him yelling.

Lessons learned. Don't talk to the Homeless.

[ErSwnn]

For a CL transaction...and I just did one yesterday, in a parking lot....is make contact by phone. It's the only way I'll continue the transaction past the first ot second email. Just call me and we'll set up time/place. With a tracable phone number not many bad guys are going to go through with a criminal act. It also establishes a basis for trust. If a seller/buyer is shady they most likely won't want to reveal a number. It still isn't fool proof, clones or stolen phones being the problem, but it helps.

[heili]

I was out with a coworker once, having lunch, and she made a comment about how men will never sit with their back to the door. It took a minute before I realized why I had never noticed this ... and that's because I usually pick my seat first so that my back isn't to the door.

I notice things in my surroundings, and when I mention something later, I find that people often have no idea what I'm talking about.

As far as meeting people for any Internet related purpose - I've been around the 'net since the very early 90s, and to this day I meet people in public places, preferably crowded ones.

I wouldn't invite a total stranger I met at a bar to my house after an hour, and the same thing applies to someone who buys something from me on CL, so there's nothing inherently suspicious about meeting in a parking lot as long as it's a well lit parking lot during business hours.