The view from the outside looking in

[ByblosHex]

I think it's deeper than that, they don't understand their own mind or body. All the gun fearing people I know are a little clumsy, oblivious, and tend to 'Forrest Gump' their way through life.

QFT

It's the same people who fear guns out of ignorance who go their most other aspects of their lives in willing ignorance as well. Maybe it's a coincidence but of the people I know, the ones who are most comfortable with guns are also the ones most interested and knowledgeable in their field of work, and of life in general.

[max384]

My point comes down to this...

In some ways it seems to me that the pro-gun community spends so much time battling the anti-gun people directly that they ignore the people like me who are on the outside just watching the news and seeing the bad things that go on in the city every day. The fanatical opposition some people have to the anti-gun people also from an outsider's perspective can make them look just plain crazy sometimes. I really think that the best way to win the pro-2nd amendment battle is to educate people who are neither overtly opposed nor against guns like I was. I think that if the pro gun community were actually able to convince people like me instead by taking people shooting for example and opening their eyes to see underhanded techniques and outright lies perpetrated by the anti gun movement that it would really change the sentiment of the public greatly.

This video from the movie "Thank You For Smoking" pretty much sums up my point, except about the part of being "wrong";

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLS-npemQYQ

I really think that instead of fighting the crazed anti-gunners directly we need to go after the people like I used to be who are fairly indifferent to the fight. Once we do that I think that the pro-gun community would make up the vast majority and we could marginalize and make the anti-gun movement completely inconsequential.

Thanks for that insight. I'm glad to hear that you came around and saw the world for what it is... based upon your own research rather than what the talking box tells you.

I agree that more information and education to the masses will help our cause. I agree with that 100%... However, me must still 'fanatically' oppose laws and people who trample our American rights.

I understand that 'fanatical' opposition to the anti-gunners may appear crazy to some people... but the 'fanatical' opposition is only in response to fanatical opposition to gun rights by the antis. We're basically fighting fire with fire, except the tools of our trade are knowledge and common sense, as opposed to fear and misinformation.

If we don't fanatically oppose the antis, they gain ground and get validation for what they do. This only further makes them appear good in the eyes of the public. We must oppose the antis head on if we wish to keep our guns and our gun rights.

[Atrumnex]

Thanks for that insight. I'm glad to hear that you came around and saw the world for what it is... based upon your own research rather than what the talking box tells you.

I agree that more information and education to the masses will help our cause. I agree with that 100%... However, me must still 'fanatically' oppose laws and people who trample our American rights.

I understand that 'fanatical' opposition to the anti-gunners may appear crazy to some people... but the 'fanatical' opposition is only in response to fanatical opposition to gun rights by the antis. We're basically fighting fire with fire, except the tools of our trade are knowledge and common sense, as opposed to fear and misinformation.

If we don't fanatically oppose the antis, they gain ground and get validation for what they do. This only further makes them appear good in the eyes of the public. We must oppose the antis head on if we wish to keep our guns and our gun rights.

There's a quote that I've heard that goes, "When you argue with an idiot they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experiance". Defending against accusations is one thing, but indulging them by going beyond that is pointless since chances are nothing you say will ever convince them. Point out their lies, but don't become embroiled in their arguements and tactics too much, instead just go after the people whose minds you can change.

[max384]

There's a quote that I've heard that goes, "When you argue with an idiot they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experiance". Defending against accusations is one thing, but indulging them by going beyond that is pointless since chances are nothing you say will ever convince them. Point out their lies, but don't become embroiled in their arguements and tactics too much, instead just go after the people whose minds you can change.

I think we must be thinking of different things. I'm not actually sure what opposition you're referring to.

[bigandy1966]

OP: good post welcome to the Forum!

The arguments I have had always follow this logic and inevitably follow this script:
Anti- "Guns are dangerous and guns kill people"
Pro2A-" People are dangerous and people kill people, Have you ever even fired a firearm?"
Anti- "No I am afraid of them, see previous statement"
Pro-"If you have never had any first hand experience with firearms how can you postulate this conclusion? Basically you are telling me you fear what you do not know"
Anti- "This is something I do not want o find out about"
Pro- "Why?"
Anti- "Because I am afraid of firearms"
Pro- "Why? If your afraid of something you should KNOW what it is about that thing that scares you"
Anti- "I never had any experience with guns"
Pro- Ok lets go shooting tomorrow and after that you can tell me what is so scary about firearms

I have gotten a couple of New Jerseyians to actually love shooting. One guys asking me about getting a shotgun for HD and skeet, another guys trying to convince is wife into getting a pistol

[andrewjs18]

Well Emoticon your point of view is certainly appreciated. And it would be great if we could concentrate on getting the word and the truth out to the uncommitted or uninformed or even the uninterested. We face only one problem. Through what medium? Newspapers, radio and and television are almost all anti-gun (perhaps I should use the term anti-rights).

Every gun club I've ever belonged to has some sort of open house event to try to inform the public of shooting sports, many have have pre-hunting, open to the public, sight in days. Many try other means like cleaning up trash from local streams as a means to develop interest and to demonstrate "neighborlyness". Rarely if ever do these efforts receive anything more that a passing reference in the local news media. Few newspapers will ever print pro-gun or pro-rights letters to the editor.

But, as a group we keep trying no matter what the opposition. One letter, one person, one conversation at a time. Forums like PAFOA might be preaching to choir in a way but, at least we can share ideas and devlop discussion points among ourselves.

Welcome to the fight. May we never fail.

use whatever medium works best for you to get the message of gun rights out there. some people prefer blogging, facebook, pamphlets, verbal, etc.

sure, the legislatures can get pro-gun bills passed, but they can be repealed when the antis get in office, so we need to do a better job at reaching out to the public and trying to do our best.

[johnfritz]

Emoticon, thanks for your well written, thoughtful post. I like the suggestion of educating people who are not familiar with firearms.

I have two close friends who I've introduced to handguns and target shooting as a sport. And they love it! My one friend is in the process of acquiring his LTCF and will be purchasing his first handgun early next year. Neither one of these guys would get near a handgun a year or so ago. So it's a start.