Hunter found dead in Quakertown

[bubba15301]

i think the rifle they are looking might be an inline muzzleloader with a sabot bullet .entrance and exit wound would look like a hit from a centerfire rifle

[Yoder]

That is not my point. My point is the headline and sensational reporting. Here is the headline:

"Illegal High-Powered Rifle Killed Hunter: Police"

See it clearly now?

Illegal gun or illegal activity? Do I really have to spoon feed this to you?

I agree, also what the hell does "high powered" even mean? Is there a graph for this? Well it couldn't have been a 30-30.

I hate to hear stories like this. The guy was having the time of his life, just killed a monster buck then wham. I feel sorry for his family and maybe even the dumbass that shot him if it truly was an accident. It would be hard to sleep at night living with that.

[Squid]

You can only hunt with a rifle in the Berks County areas of 5C. Any other area in 5C you are not allowed to use a centerfire rifle-private or public.

Pretty darn sure that it's legal to use a center fire in Northampton County, a part of WMU 5C.

[bogey1]

i think the rifle they are looking might be an inline muzzleloader with a sabot bullet .entrance and exit wound would look like a hit from a centerfire rifle

there would be no refiling on the slug though, so that wouldnt help much unless they found the sabot.

[bigandy1966]

I tend to consider a " High powered rifle" anything that fires a modern center fire cartridge using modern smokeless powder. This would not include rim fire, pistol caliber, or black powder propelled cartridges that do not typically have effective ranges over 150 to 250 yards. I know there are old buffalo rifle rounds that are easily capable of taking game at ranges that far excede this.
Not trying to be smart. just saying

[max384]

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/m...,7603484.story


Family of dead hunter in shock, he died of gunshot wound


The family of the Quakertown man shot and killed on the opening day of deer hunting season said Tuesday they were shocked by his death and searching for answers.

Police said Barry Groh, 52, was found dead of a gunshot wound while hunting on a rural property in Richland Township. His death has been labeled suspicious and investigators and state gaming agents are creating a topographical map to determine where other hunters may have been at the time of Groh's shooting.

Groh's sister-in-law, Melody Schueck, said the family is in shock and they believed Groh's death may have been a tragic accident.

"They couldn't have meant to do it. . .," Schueck said, her voice trailing off. "It wasn't on purpose."

Groh, of 209 Park Ave., died from a gunshot wound, authorities said Tuesday. Police Sgt. Richard Ficco said Tuesday afternoon an autopsy has been performed but he did not have the details.

Groh was hunting Monday near 1155 California Road when he shot a 195-pound nine-point buck about 10:15 a.m., police said, and he then put his gun down and dragged the buck about 300 feet.

He took off his orange vest and called his wife about 10:30 a.m. and asked for one of his sons to come help him, police said.

Police said he died sometime between 10:30 a.m. and 12:40 p.m., when members of a hunting party being held by the landowner of 1155 California Road found the man's body in Tohickon Creek in a wooded section of the township.

Monday was opening day in Pennsylvania of a two-week season of deer hunting by rifle.

Police are investigating along with the Bucks County District Attorney's office and the state game commission.

Ficco said Tuesday that investigators were still interviewing members of the hunting party on the property at the time of the shooting.

"The death is absolutely suspicious," Ficco said. "Maybe it goes from accidental to homicide, but you don't have the investigation decided from the get-go."

Melody Schueck said Barry's youngest son, Justin, had gone to help his father with the deer. But, by the time he arrived, police were already there.

"They wouldn't let him get near his father," said Melody's husband, David Schueck. "Thank God."

Groh's mother, 89-year-old Anna Groh, said she was devastated by the killing and kept hoping for details.

"He's dead and I'm mad," Groh said. "I don't understand why someone would just shoot a person like that. But, I guess I'm not supposed to understand. How can you?"

Family said Groh was an avid hunter who loved to be out on the first day of the season. Groh worked as a maintenance technician for Visteon in Lansdale.

On Tuesday afternoon, Melody Schueck held up a photo of a young Barry Groh and his wife, Theresa, smiling on their wedding day.

"It should have been 25 years in May," she said.

Anna Groh said a number of people were also hunting on the California Road property at the time of the shooting.

"How could all those people be around and no one can give the answers to what happened?," she said. "Just tell police what happened."

Groh's death was the second in the region during Monday's deer hunting.

Frederick Xander, 62, of Whitehall Township, died of natural causes while hunting from a tree stand in Heidelberg Township.

Sounds to me like some moron shot at the first thing moving that wasn't blaze orange. I'm sure he realized what he did and took off.

I'm not trying to say the victim deserved that by any means, but he should not have taken off his blaze orange... Especially when dragging a buck out of the woods. When I'm dragging a dear out, I am careful to drag him by a rope. I also have an old orange vest I lay on the deer. You can never be too careful... Especially with the amount of morons in the woods nowadays.

I used to exclusively hunt public game lands and I've seen many hunters that use a two person buddy system to carry a deer out over their shoulders. There's no way in hell I'm getting a deer that high off the ground to give some moron who sees fur a shot at it. I also saw one guy with a homemade-looking backpack dragging system. Basically, the neck and front legs were strapped into the backpack and the bottom legs dragged. Again, I just don't think this is a wise way to get a deer out of the woods. It's too easy for someone to see a rack and fire off a shot in the general direction. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

[animalmother85]

i think the rifle they are looking might be an inline muzzleloader with a sabot bullet .entrance and exit wound would look like a hit from a centerfire rifle

I am no ballistician by any means, but I do have a little back ground in forensics. As far as it being a sabot or an actual rifle round, it can be distinguished via autopsy if the projectile is not recovered. I doubt he was shot with anything larger then a .35 caliber bullet. I'm not to up to date on sabot rounds for shotguns anymore, is anyone making a .35cal or smaller sabot round? Also, if the round is recovered, you'd see the rifling on the projectile depending on how far away the shot was taken(further the shot, lower the velocity, the more intact the bullet will be).

I agree, also what the hell does "high powered" even mean? Is there a graph for this? Well it couldn't have been a 30-30.

Maybe they are considering what the NRA has set for the standard for high power competition?

htthttp://www.nrahq.org/compete/highpower.aspp://

Rifle: Rifles to be used in High Power Rifle competition must be equipped with metallic sights (Some long range, 1000-yard matches allow the use of "any sights"), should be capable of holding at least 5 rounds of ammunition and should be adapted to rapid reloading. Tournament programs often group competitions into two divisions, Service Rifle and Match Rifle. The rifles currently defined as "Service Rifles" include the M1, M14, M16 and their commercial equivalents. Winchester and Remington have made their Model 70 and Model 40X rifles in "match" versions and custom gunsmiths have made up match rifles on many military and commercial actions. 1903 and 1903-A3 Springfield, 1917 Enfields and pre-war Winchester Model 70 sporters in .30-06 are all equipped with clip slots for rapid reloading. The most suitable rear sights are aperture or "peep" with reliable, repeatable 1/2 minute (or finer) adjustments. Front sights should be of either the post or aperture type.

That would include .223 Remington. Keep in mind, most news agencies don't know the difference like we do. We tend to think in terms of high power being something along 30-06 and above (give or take), right? They don't, High power sounds scary, scary sells papers.

I'm not trying to say the victim deserved that by any means, but he should not have taken off his blaze orange... Especially when dragging a buck out of the woods. When I'm dragging a dear out, I am careful to drag him by a rope. I also have an old orange vest I lay on the deer. You can never be too careful... Especially with the amount of morons in the woods nowadays.

Great advice. Yes, lots of gun slingin' yahoos out there...there was a post that got locked on here a few days ago titled 'Almost got shot hunting today'. It was probably the most captivating read I've had in a while on PAFOA.ORG. I highly recommend looking it up in the hunting section to catch up.

I still think there was some foul play here(more then already reported).

[max384]

I am no ballistician by any means, but I do have a little back ground in forensics. As far as it being a sabot or an actual rifle round, it can be distinguished via autopsy if the projectile is not recovered. I doubt he was shot with anything larger then a .35 caliber bullet. I'm not to up to date on sabot rounds for shotguns anymore, is anyone making a .35cal or smaller sabot round? Also, if the round is recovered, you'd see the rifling on the projectile depending on how far away the shot was taken(further the shot, lower the velocity, the more intact the bullet will be).



Maybe they are considering what the NRA has set for the standard for high power competition?



That would include .223 Remington. Keep in mind, most news agencies don't know the difference like we do. We tend to think in terms of high power being something along 30-06 and above (give or take), right? They don't, High power sounds scary, scary sells papers.



Great advice. Yes, lots of gun slingin' yahoos out there...there was a post that got locked on here a few days ago titled 'Almost got shot hunting today'. It was probably the most captivating read I've had in a while on PAFOA.ORG. I highly recommend looking it up in the hunting section to catch up.

I still think there was some fowl play here(more then already reported).

What??? There were chickens involved too? This goes deeper than I ever imagined! (couldn't help myself, it's late and my brain's fried)

I'll check out that thread.

[glocke12]

that crap really pisses me off. dont wear blue or red while turkey hunting because someone may mistake you for a turkey you gotta be kidding

if you mistake a human for a turkey, personally, IMHO you should have your guns taken away from you.

Actually....

This was maybe ten years ago. I was hiking on the Appalachian trail in the delaware water gap (PA side) during spring gobbler season. I think it was a sunday also. It was raining, and I had a blue/purple gore-tex shell on when a Fudd comes around the corner with a shotgun and proceeds to tell me how lucky I was he did not shoot me because with the color of my rain coat he thought I was a turkey.

Since I was alone in the woods with this guy I really wasn't in the mood for any kind of confrontation, and aside from mentioning to him that hunting was not allowed on the A.T., I just walked by him.

Oh, and not only is hunting not allowed on the A.T., but it was also Sunday...

[bigandy1966]

I have just had a scathingly brilliant idea.
Bring along an old vest and put it on the deer while dragging or carrying it out, keep yours on.
I have seen Fudds who shoot at noises before, up in Warwick game lands.