Bethlehem PD's response to LTCF

[Micky]

The post I made earlier about the local PD being gestapo-esque....guess where I live? Hellertown! This is terriffic, now I have MULTIPLE (I mean like 10 or more) different, independent stories about the local cops being football-bats. Luckily, I've managed to avoid them so far. FML.

[Storm88000]

Were any lawsuits or complaints filed?

What eventually happened was, they decided to cite my friend, the driver, for not using his turn signal, which they claim was the reason for pulling him over, and they said they smelled alcohol on him, and they said because I was his passenger he was "liable" for anything that I had on me (I had nothing and never would).

A second officer showed up on the scene, and snuck up on the front passenger side, before we were pulled out of the car. I had just removed my wallet to get my ID out in case it was asked for, and I heard a voice from my side that goes "WHAT THE FUCK IS IN YOUR POCKET????????" And I go "my wallet." And then he just stood there. Then a few minutes later the first LEO cuffed my friend because he claimed he suspected he was driving under the influence, and the second cop tells me to get out of the car. He's like "do you have any needles or anything that can stick me?" And I'm like "WTF? No" not realizing that what he did, in a bit of trickery, was sort of get me to consent to a search, by asking me if I had needles in my pockets. Even though I didn't say I that I consented. He never actually asked. So then he made me stand up against his cruiser as he went thru my pockets and jacket. We were pulled over at around 10pm, and it was a good 2 hours before they let me go, I had to have someone come pick me up.

I never filed any complaints or anything, this was a few years ago. I was just glad not to get shot or thrown into the pavement. My friend paid a fine for failure to signal, and that was it. No dui charges. I stay out of that area now. They nail out of town people every night leaving the Sands casino for anything. Some justified, some not-so-much.

[ungawa]

The post I made earlier about the local PD being gestapo-esque....guess where I live? Hellertown! This is terriffic, now I have MULTIPLE (I mean like 10 or more) different, independent stories about the local cops being football-bats. Luckily, I've managed to avoid them so far. FML.

If you are afraid of cops in any area of Lehigh Valley, contact me and we'll go open carry together wherever they tend to hang out. Cops tend to give people a hard time when they have a captive audience that wants something from them. But I've open carried around dozens of cops from the dozens of departments in the Bethlehem/Bethlehem City/Nazareth/surrounding Townships area and never had a problem. I'm not exaggerating.

[Micky]

Wow, really? That's really decent of you. I'm pretty floored by that. I'm not so much scared, but more worried about how they'll handle it if I get harassed. I have a wife and kids I need to be around for...and I'm not the type to let my hard-earned rights get trampled on, especially after 2 tours in Afghaniland...

But yeah, I'm definently down to OC. I've just never done it before...and I won't lie...kinda makes me nervous. (I know, I sound like a pussy...)

[Curmudgeon]

Wow, really? That's really decent of you. I'm pretty floored by that. I'm not so much scared, but more worried about how they'll handle it if I get harassed. I have a wife and kids I need to be around for...and I'm not the type to let my hard-earned rights get trampled on, especially after 2 tours in Afghaniland...

But yeah, I'm definently down to OC. I've just never done it before...and I won't lie...kinda makes me nervous. (I know, I sound like a pussy...)

I recently quoted a post by WVneighbor about this very thing. You are not the first to feel a little nervous. Here it is again...

I posted this on WVCDL.org, I'm REALLY trying to post less here and more there, but thought some of you might enjoy this.

After I wrote this I thought it sounded more like a blog entry than a message board post. Maybe I'll start a blog, it might be kind of interesting to look back at my initial reactions in a year or so. I realize those reading this probably have carried for a while and this is more to get the experience out of my head and onto "paper" than anything else. Maybe someone who hasn't carried, but is thinking about it, will read it and be reassured or at least prepared.

Forgive the sentence structure, I don't think in complete sentences and wrote that way to convey what was happening in my head. Which is just as important as what was happing externally.

I brought my first pistol home on Friday, Dec. 19. While I've handled and shot other pistols, this one is the first one I've bought myself. I took some picture, posted a couple threads, put it away and headed to bed (I'm working nights so I sleep during the day). I also brought home my first ever holster, an inexpensive, but nice OWB in black leather.

Saturday came and my fiancee and daughter were headed out for a Christmas cookie baking session at the fiancee's sisters house. I decided I was going to head to the range to run some rounds through my new gun. I decided I was going to carry my gun rather than take it up in the box. I puttered around for a bit, getting my range gear together in my new range bag, made a list of things I needed from Wal-Mart (ammo, paper plates, push-pins and target stand) and got dressed. I put my belt on and tried the empty holster in a couple different positions, I didn't care for 3:30, so moved it forward a little to about 3:00 or so. I changed my shirt three times because I didn't like the way it fell over the empty holster. I eventually settled for a shirt with a long tail. Which I promptly tucked in because I didn't like how it looked untucked.

I then realized what I was doing ... I was putting off holstering my new gun. I really couldn't come up with an articulable reason for my procrastination. So I went out to the dining room, opened the box, loaded a magazine, checked the safety and holstered my gun. There are some moments in your life you will never forget. There are the old standards: the first kiss, or the first time you see your child. This was a moment I'll never forget. I crossed some kind of threshold, standing there in the dining room. There was a change, small and barely perceptible, but something was different. And then ... it was over. I went about the business of zipping up my range bag, looking for my keys, wallet, checking my CHL was in my wallet along with my drivers license (I chuckled at the irony there). I stepped outside and was bit in the face by a cold breeze, back inside to change socks, coat and look for my gloves.

I put my heavier coat on, loaded up the range bag and my 10/22 in the car and got in. I sat there for a few moments, once again, for some reason I felt myself on the cusp of ... something. There was a line, a boundary something holding me back from taking that next small step. I said, out-loud, to myself "This is about as useful as carrying an ashtray." I unholstered my gun, flicked off the safety, took a deep breath, chambered a round, put the safety back on, and re-holstered my gun. I turned on the radio and was greeted by George Thorogood proclaiming he was "Bad to the Bone". Great. Just the song I DON'T need to hear my first time carrying a gun. Change the station ... ahh, Montgomery Gentry, "Roll with me". And the moment was over. Whatever boundary I had crossed, it was over, done. I had taken small steps, over the last 6 months or more and I was now a person who carries a gun. I don't think I'll go back to not carrying, unless its impossible or very impractical, at work for example.

The drive to Wal-Mart had me thinking about some of the things I've read on this board and others. About how people who carry guns are de-facto representatives for all gun owners. About how I'm not the Protector of the Innocent just because I'm carrying a gun. About how I need to walk/behave normally, I don't need to be constantly adjusting my belt, or checking to make sure I'm concealing adequately. To everyone else out there I wanted to be one among many. A sheep with sharp teeth in sheeps clothing, to completely destroy a phrase.

So I'm at Wal-Mart, lots full so I park a ways out. Heading into the store I found myself adjusting my pants, they always fall a little from where I would like to wear them, but today they had a bit of extra weight to contend with. "Let it ride where it rides" I thought and just let my pants/belt/gun fall to a more natural place. It worked. It felt comfortable, I barely felt the weight of the gun at all. Inside I reach for a cart "shit, did my coat ride up too far" pull my hand back and take a step closer to the cart instead of reaching. Just my luck, another cart is stuck to the one I'm trying to take. Too many people around to get another one. Uh oh, Wal-Mart greeter lady (4ft tall black woman) trying to help me get the carts unstuck. Act natural. Shake the carts, "OMG I can feel my gun/holster moving around, please don't let it fall out", push, pull, bang and the cart comes free and I'm off.

Not only do I have a cart with a wobbly wheel, it has a wheel that squeaks. So much for being one among many.

People are EVERYWHERE. Off to the grocery section to get paper plates. Search and Rescue, ah ha! there they are, in the cart. Mission Accomplished! Push-pins next. 4 aisles down, 1 aisle over. Crap, dad and kid-small-enough-to-be-in-the-cart-seat standing in the middle of the aisle. Right where the push-pin bin is. Ok, do the browse till he moves thing. Hmm, lady bug pins, could use those. Only $2.88. I spy the ones I want, 100 for $.96. Juuuuuust on the other side of the dad & kid combo, but not far enough I can get them if I come in from the other side.

"Excuse me" shit he moved! Push-pins secured, GTFO and on to the next objective. Target stand, by the paint counter, a nice little walk. Through the baby clothes (OMG! Think of the children! I'm carrying a gun through Wal-Marts baby clothes section!!!) I smiled and kept walking. Electronics, bright flashy things distract me for a bit, forget I'm carrying at all. Fiancee wants a external hard drive, where would they be .... Ah! There they are. Hmm, $89 for 320g. Not bad. OOOOH! 2g thumb drives for $12 ... STOCKING STUFFERS! Damn, hard drive box is empty, got to have the pimply faced boy get it from Wal-Marts Super Secret Top Security Area. Wait by the checkout, pimple boy comes back, says I have to pay for the drive there. Not a problem, had the Discover for Christmas presents and my bank card for my range trip purchases, I'll just reach back to my .... oh shit. My coats moving, riding up as I reach for my wallet, oh damn ohdamnohdamn. Hand pimple boy the card, no one panics, no children run away screaming. Transaction final. Christmas shopping officially done! With a gun. Damn I'm good.

Hardware, practically empty, target stand in the cart. On to the ammo counter. 9mm WWB, check for speer gold dot or federal hydrashok, no dice. I got smart, wallet is now in my COAT pocket. HA! I win. Pay and I'm headed to the door. Typically if the door alarm sounds I keep on walking. What to do if pimple boy didn't demagnetize the security strips in the hard drive or thumb drives. Plus I have an unbagged item (target stand which is actually a FOR SALE stand). "BOOOP! You have activated Wal-Marts inventory control system. Please step back and an associate will help you." The lady three feet in front of me lit it up, great, if it goes off I'll have to wait till she is done. Take my bags out of the cart, grab the sign, walk through and ... nothing! Whew!

Sitting in the car. Coat is bulky. Car is warm. Don't need the coat. Take it off. First thing that goes through my mine ... "Hey, I'm Open Carrying now!" I laugh and turn on the radio. Def Leppard tells me its "Better to burn out than fade away!" yeah, no. Change the station, "Life is a Highway". Ok, better. To BK for a whopper. Drive-thru, no problems. To Sheetz for a Dew. Problem. No drive-thru. No coat. 7 P's. Piss poor planning produces piss poor results. Should have left the coat on. Open carry is legal so I should be ok for the few seconds its going to take me to put on my coat. No one coming so I get out, now I'm REALLY open carrying. Crap, dude came out of Sheetz headed this way ... CANT GET MY FREAKING COAT ON. Its on, but the entire right side is HUNG UP ON MY GUN! Dude looked dead at me, his eyes widened a little and he got in his car. Great, probably on his cell phone calling in a Man With Gun report. I feel like a potential robber now, trying to hide the gun and get the zipper zipped, DAMN IT caught the fabric in the zipper! Go in, get my dew, shit wallets in my back pocket, AGAIN. Got cash in my left front, pay with that and head out. Said "futhisisafamilyboardck it" took my coat off, open carried for 3 seconds then I was back in the car and headed to the range.

Range report is posted elsewhere here. Rest of the day was uneventful. Carried all day, at home, till about 5 or so then crashed (pistol on the nightstand) for a couple hours.

Summary, I carried, blood didn't run in the streets, I didn't turn into a testosterone fueled madman, no children were harmed and with the exception of me carrying a gun, it was a pretty ordinary day.

[Micky]

Much thanks for that.

I CC constantly. I don't know what it is...maybe carrying a weapon constantly in-country just made me feel better about having one, or because I read the local news enough to be bugged by the insanity that I know occurs around my home, but my weapon is always one of two places: the Galco KingTuk on my right hip, or the GunVault safe on my bed-side table.

I've just never carried OPENLY before, unless I was walking just outside my house. The neighbors have seen it on my hip when I bring in groceries, or go outside to sweep the porch, but I've just never walked down the street with an openly carried firearm before. I like the aspect of it drawing out the curious, and giving me a chance to educate...but I also worry about the local PD getting their collective panties bunched and I end up picking concrete out of my cheek and waiting for my wife to come bail me out of the local hooskow.

[longcall911]

Wow, really? That's really decent of you. I'm pretty floored by that. I'm not so much scared, but more worried about how they'll handle it if I get harassed. I have a wife and kids I need to be around for...and I'm not the type to let my hard-earned rights get trampled on, especially after 2 tours in Afghaniland...

But yeah, I'm definently down to OC. I've just never done it before...and I won't lie...kinda makes me nervous. (I know, I sound like a pussy...)

If you guys go and are interested in a 3rd, PM me. I'm on the southern border of bethlehem, a couple of blocks off main street in Hellertown. I might be up for nice walk.

[9orangeletters]

*sniff*

Smells like a Northampton County meetup.

Can I get in on the OC parade?

[ungawa]

*sniff*

Smells like a Northampton County meetup.

Can I get in on the OC parade?

I have zero interest in any kind of activism motivated OC event in Northampton County since there is no problem with OC in Northampton County. I do it every single day. I don't intend to suddenly act like it's something out of the ordinary that demands attention. "We're here, we're queer, accept us! Blah!!! Waaaaa!!!" Um, not for me. If there was a reason for activism I would feel differently.

But if it would help you (Micky) feel more comfortable I'd be glad to meet with you somewhere. If you contact me, because I can't promise I'll read this thread again or read it again soon. I don't always follow-up on threads.

If you guys go and are interested in a 3rd, PM me. I'm on the southern border of bethlehem, a couple of blocks off main street in Hellertown. I might be up for nice walk.

I'm always up for meeting nice people.

[Micky]

Fuck yeah, I'll PM ya. This sounds like a plan to me. We just need to coordinate with anyone who wants to join in, and maybe go for a walk ro some such. I'll get up with ya, and anyone else interested in going just to hang out and meet, lemme know via PM as well.